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c/r or overbet river ?

    • getdotacom
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 608
      PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from

      Button ($354.39)
      SB ($744.59)
      Hero (BB) ($1537.37)
      UTG ($1902.14)
      MP ($218.57)
      CO ($856.72)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 3:diamond: , 2:diamond:
      UTG bets $15, 1 fold, CO calls $15, Button calls $15, SB calls $12.50, Hero calls $10

      Flop: ($75) 5:heart: , 9:diamond: , 4:heart: (5 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $54.15, 1 fold, CO raises to $124, 2 folds, Hero calls $69.85

      Turn: ($323) K:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      River: ($323) 4:club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO checks

      Total pot: $323 | Rake: $2.80

      Villain 33/27/15, 1.8AF, raise donkbet 22%, 1.4k hands

      F: I think donking is the only play here, hate any other line. Villain's raise looks really weird because he made it so small. Looks like he wants to iso me from other players behind, but I think he's making it much bigger with set.

      T: When he checks back, I'm pretty sure he has something like TT or some draw.

      R: What we do here ? I can have some FH's in my range, I think I'm still calling his flop raise with 54s and 44, maybe 55 sometimes. My first idea was to overbet, but I think he's never folding a pair and could snap me off with Ahi as well. Then I decided to check and jam over his bet if he bets, but he will bet here very rarely tho. What do u think we should do more in general here ? I think overbetting nuts makes more sense, but then we're always folding when checking ? My range is so polarized, I even can't have Ahi to call if he bets.
  • 7 replies
    • MatejM47
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well i think you really can't represent much by check/shoving or overbetting.

      You say you might have 44,55 and 45s but what really matters is does he expect you to donk/call those hands. He probably expects you to donk/ship it in on this drawy flop with pretty much every set or 2pair. And even if you have those hands in your range there's only 1 combo of 44, 2 combos of 45s and 3combos of 55 for a total of 6 hand combos. There's more then 100 combos of draws you could be playing this way on this flop.

      Its also almost impossible for you to have 4x and take this line and KK you'd sqz pre.

      Basically you really don't have enough if any hands in your range that you'd want to get a lot of money in on the river. And combo vise if your only doing this with bluffs and boats then your bluffing like 90%+ of the time and given that its nl500 i think ppl can hand read well enough to know that but i don't personally play that high so i might be wrong. Imo your just forced to c/f river.

      Given that you have nut low you can consider betting like a 100 just to make him fold his air that also beats you since you really don't want it to go c/c and lose to 68dd.
    • bradomurder
      Joined: 17.10.2008 Posts: 1,331
      fold pre

      You can ch/jam in my opinion cos the only hands he's gonna bet are hands with no SD value that he won't be able to call with, even though you cant really rep much

      I think I like MateMJ's line though, betting out small to fold the weak as crap out

      disclaimer: My cash game experience is limited to the occasional few hands at 25-50NL
    • MatejM47
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Originally posted by bradomurder
      fold pre
      Yeah +1 on that. 5 way you just get overflushed / overstraited to often. Your also not super happy when you flop 2 pair since its always going to be bottom 2. This hand just has nothing good going for it and you pretty much never win the hand unless you flop really big and even then you have reversed implied in terms of being dominated.
    • lnternet
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      +1 to comments on pre

      I dont like the flop donk bet to be honest. I think it's just too weak. You are crushed by pairs, crushed by flush draws, crushed by 76 and sets. And it's 5 way. I think you should check this and probably check fold unless the action develops favorably.

      Calling the flop raise, well, again you have an extremely weak draw. I would rate 32 similar to K :diamond: Q :diamond: on the flop vs his raise to be honest. I think just folding is best. Or 3bet bluff. I really dont see what you expect to happen after you call, you will be check folding almost every turn.

      River you absolutely have to bluff bet. He might have a 76. And you cant let him give up with a hand like that and then win a showdown with 7hi. That would be terrible.

      For sizing.. I think repping really strong with an overbet is fine. I think betting "normal", repping something like KX:heart: :heart: or A9/TT is fine too. Not sure what I prefer.
    • handsomeover
      Joined: 23.02.2012 Posts: 34
      Put it all in, good balls for him to call
    • pharcyo
      Joined: 18.02.2011 Posts: 51
      I don't mind betting like 128, 454 or just c/fing. I agree with folding pre.
    • 1mpr0x
      Joined: 27.11.2009 Posts: 3,404
      I think I fold pre and don`t lead flop. Imo our hand is a c/f otf. It's just too weak to play with and without initative. Also I would fold to his raise and wouldn't take his "raise donkbet"stat as some sort of tendency since this stat is kinda based on Postflop HU situations.

      OTR I think c/f is best since he can just snap us with Ahi allday. Just going by the flop action check/jam is not a good option imo