[NL20-NL50] NL100 FR JJ in SB

    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      $0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
      10 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($102.07) 102bb
      UTG+1 ($115.10) 115bb
      UTG+2 ($140.26) 140bb
      MP1 ($165.87) 166bb
      MP2 ($85.93) 86bb
      MP3 ($115.43) 115bb
      CO ($211.43) 211bb
      BTN ($14.88) 15bb
      Hero (SB) ($101.81) 102bb
      BB ($206) 206bb

      Pre-Flop: ($1.50, 10 players) Hero is SB J:heart: J:club:
      8 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB raises to $11, Hero raises to $25.50, BB calls $14.50

      Flop: A:heart: 8:spade: 3:club: ($51, 2 players)
      Hero bets $15, BB calls $15

      Turn: K:heart: ($81, 2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $28, Hero folds

      Final Pot: $109

      BB wins $105 (net +$36.50)

      Hero lost $40.50

      Stats in 3.4k hands
      26/12/2.8/47/33/55
      65/59/23/46/2

      How do I cure retards of this habit? :( I tried making it a bit bigger, same story he calls. Postflop I don't know if it's worth cbeting or not. It's probably not but if I check twice even my grandma would know I'm check-folding and can accurately put me on non Ax hands. And do I have another option besides check-folding?

      Help :f_cry:
  • 9 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello BadeaCelRau,

      Well, ain't the purpose of CBetting the flop make something like QQ/KK to fold, which means we should also CB it a bit bigger than that smallish. Instead I'd most likely just Check/Fold it than make such a weak play with such a sizing whilst the guy could easily even float QQ/KK this way.

      Best Regards.
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      But would he really call QQ and KK BVB? I don't think so.

      I cbet just to throw him off air and prevent him from bluffing me, because if he's on air and I check the flop, well that's not much. But once I check the turn again I know he's agressive enough to try and take it down and my hand is too face up to resist any pressure.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      What do you guys think villain his range looks like?
    • w4terman
      w4terman
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.04.2011 Posts: 757
      from his 3bet stats looks that he is not 3betting light for sure 2,8 is something like QQ+ AK and hand history is more that enough to be sure about it 3,4k hands!
      I guess he whould shove KK so this is out from his range looks like he has AK or slowplays AA


      i whould fold it preflop vs such 3bet range
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by BadeaCelRau
      But would he really call QQ and KK BVB? I don't think so.

      I cbet just to throw him off air and prevent him from bluffing me, because if he's on air and I check the flop, well that's not much. But once I check the turn again I know he's agressive enough to try and take it down and my hand is too face up to resist any pressure.
      Why not? Easy trap with KK and maybe even AA of course. :)

      Why would he be on air there? I'd say the opposite that he has very capped range there towards the only hands you make to fold is PPs and everything else has you beat. Especially vs the 4bet.
    • Hackett77
      Hackett77
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 372
      What is your reasoning for the 4b pre?

      Against this guy it doesnt seem to work as either a bluff or valuebet.

      Just call the 3b and play some poker with him postflop, he seems kind of weak it shouldnt be hard playing OOP vs him.

      I thnk 4betting is the worst of the 3 option.

      4bet JJ is great when you enough of a dynamic that villian is playing 3b/5b with small pairs otherwise its just a waste of a decent hand to use as a 4bet bluff, Do it with A2s or something instead.

      Where you folding to a 5b if he shipped?

      Against this guy with a tight 3b range id be looking to take the lines that manipulate his range in my favour which means keeping it wide = call pre.

      Some people arent comfortable calling 3bets OOP, I get that, but in todays games we have to do it sometimes as often its the most optimal play, especially in SBvBB and COvBU scenarios and super especially with hands like TT-JJ, KQs AQ.
    • BadeaCelRau
      BadeaCelRau
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.10.2010 Posts: 2,122
      I don't think he is so capped, despite the 2.8 3bet. The number is misguiding if someone plays differently from session to session, or influenced by tilt. For example yesterday he 3bet me AJo from the blinds when I was in HJ. Also we're BvB and I found even the biggest nits have some bluffs in their 3bet range against the SB. What would you recommend if 4betting isolates me against his better hands?

      I searched a bit thorugh the history and you might be right about the trapping. He hasn't called 4bets so far, although everyone else does and it's easy to put people in the same wagon :D


      EDIT:
      @Hackett : Yes, I'm going broke. About calling, it's probably the right move given his preflop range but that doesn't mean it's a money making move especially when I'm doing it the first time against him and I have no idea how he plays these pots in position. Right now I'm not profitable even when calling 3bets in position, I have a long way to go until I am profitable OOP :f_biggrin:
    • Hackett77
      Hackett77
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2009 Posts: 372
      Originally posted by BadeaCelRau
      I don't think he is so capped, despite the 2.8 3bet. The number is misguiding if someone plays differently from session to session, or influenced by tilt. For example yesterday he 3bet me AJo from the blinds when I was in HJ. Also we're BvB and I found even the biggest nits have some bluffs in their 3bet range against the SB. What would you recommend if 4betting isolates me against his better hands?

      I searched a bit thorugh the history and you might be right about the trapping. He hasn't called 4bets so far, although everyone else does and it's easy to put people in the same wagon :D


      EDIT:
      @Hackett : Yes, I'm going broke. About calling, it's probably the right move given his preflop range but that doesn't mean it's a money making move especially when I'm doing it the first time against him and I have no idea how he plays these pots in position. Right now I'm not profitable even when calling 3bets in position, I have a long way to go until I am profitable OOP :f_biggrin:
      Dont worry about being profitable calling 3bts overall, it will probably never happen. Just aim to be more profitable than folding every single time (i.e filter all call 3bets exc AA/KK and make sure ur losing less than 300bb/100

      Your right about super nits 3betting light. They do if much often than people think, especially in spots like this.


      He will definately have some bluffs in his range although by the time you 4bet you just folded all them out, Now your up against a range where your not in great shape against which is why i dont like the 4bet. I dont think 4b calling will work out too well longterm either.

      If he is super aggressive bad I would check call down from the flop onwards, if he was more on the passive side I would check call flop and check fold turn or just checkfold flop dependant on gameflop and betsizing. He wont fire a DBL with Worse than Ax too often.

      Your other option is to fire 2 streets and hope he folds QQ/KK.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by BadeaCelRau
      I don't think he is so capped, despite the 2.8 3bet. The number is misguiding if someone plays differently from session to session, or influenced by tilt. For example yesterday he 3bet me AJo from the blinds when I was in HJ. Also we're BvB and I found even the biggest nits have some bluffs in their 3bet range against the SB. What would you recommend if 4betting isolates me against his better hands?

      I searched a bit thorugh the history and you might be right about the trapping. He hasn't called 4bets so far, although everyone else does and it's easy to put people in the same wagon :D
      Nope, we are also BvB so I doubt that he is 3betting that tight and I assume his 3bet from the blinds is most likely higher. :) So we can easily do that even for value. Calling and playing the hand being OOP is just crappy and I wouldn't do. You are just giving him the chance to hit against you or either play it being IP.