Choosing of starting hands in PLO Hi

    • Ratatuj
      Joined: 27.08.2007 Posts: 14,428
      hi, I'm a player from the Russian part of the site. I play PLO Hi at ipoker, have silver coachings and gold ones with TribunCaesar. I've just written an article on choosing starting hands in PLO.

      I hope it'll help the begginders but I also want to hear the opinions of the experienced players.

      The article is available in Russian here

      1. Introduction

      Choosing of starting hands in Omaha is more important than in Holdem. It is quite evident since Holdem has more opportunities for bluffing that can diminish the importance of having only good cards. Besides, it is always easier to choose a hand that consists of 2 cards than that of 4. Actually, I would say that choosing a starting hand in Omaha is not a trivial but more a creative task. Here there are no absolutely definite rules, there are only recommendations. In the long run only your game experience will help you to estimate the quality of a hand quickly and decide if it is worth playing in the certain game situation.
      So, you can use the content of the article as a recommendation only. The article implies the game at Full Ring tables, as the game at 6-max is a bit looser and Heads Up tables is much looser.


      I will use some terms in the article, let us define them:

      Wrap – it is a sequence of cards. By “wrap” I will mean a sequence of 4 cards, e.g., 5:club:7:club:6:club:8:diamond:
      Gaper – it is a wrap with a gap, I will divide them into 3 groups:
      a) lower gaper, e.g., J:heart: 7:heart: 9:spade: T:spade: . As you can see there is no 8 in the sequence of 79TJ.
      b) middle gaper, e.g., A:diamond: K:spade: T:club:J:diamond: . Q is absent.
      c) top gaper, e.g., 6:spade: 7:spade: 8:spade: T:spade: . No 9 here.
      Double/single suited (DS/SS) – when a hand consists of 2 suits or has 2 cards of one suit, e.g., K:spade: 6:spade: 7:club:8:club (double suited). So, if I say “suited Kings” or “a suited Ace”, I mean KxsKys or a hand with Axs. Complicated a bit but I hope you got a clue.

      2. Ideal Hands

      Surely, the ideal hand is one that wins you a pot on the river. But there are monster-hands in Holdem, as, e.g., a longed-for pair of Aces, there are monster-hands in Omaha.
      Let us begin with my favorite hands with a pair of Aces (I will call them just Aces-hands). These hands have really a lot of equity but only those that are qualitative. Correspondingly, the ideal Aces-hands are double suited (DS) Aces or Aces+wrap hands (it is desirable that at least one of the Aces would be suited).


      a) Suited Aces

      A:club:J:club:A:heart: 3:heart:
      A:diamond: A:heart: 6:diamond: 7:heart:
      A:spade: K:heart: A:heart: 7:spade:

      The hands are arranged in order of preference. Why? In the first example we have AJs and A3s. But J and 3 themselves form no combination. Nevertheless, both AJ and A3 can hit 2 straights – broadway and wheel respectively.
      The second example gives us and additional opportunity to hit only one straight (I mean a nut 34567 straight).
      The hand from the third example is, in my opinion, worse. A7 cannot be in one straight and moreover the presence of King of hearts in the combination AKs diminishes our chances to get paid if we hit a flush.

      b) Aces+wrap

      A:spade: K:spade: A:diamond: Q:diamond:
      A:heart: A:diamond: 2:diamond: 3:club:

      The hand from the first example has, in my opinion, a lot of equity. Here is a pair of DS Aces and additional chances to get a broadway.
      The second hand has only one DS Ace and chances to build a wheel. But, I recon, other DS Aces + any two broadway or wheel cards will present a very decent hand.

      c) Aces+pair

      A:spade: 7:spade: 7:club:A:club:
      A:club:J:club:J:diamond: A:heart:
      A:heart: K:club:A:diamond: K:spade:

      This group of hands has increased potential to hit a top-set. Surely, a pair of sevens from the first example will hardly hit exactly top-set but this hand is powerful because of two DS Aces.
      The second hand is better than the third one because it has one DS Ace.

      It goes without saying, that we do not play hands with 3 or all the 4 Aces (as any other hands of that kind).

      The hands with a pair of Kings are nearly as strong as good hands with Aces. So, I play DS Kings and (suited) Kings+wrap the same way as the corresponding hands with Aces. As a rule DS Aces are worth raising with and DS Aces with outs for straight should be played on the whole stack (100BB) pre-flop. I also raise when I get good DS Kings or Kings+pair/Kings+wrap (if they have at least one suited King). Having this type of hand I can call my opponent’s all-in pre-flop if he/she has 50BB or smaller stack. I do not think it is right to play on a full 100BB stack with Kings pre-flop as usually we deal with Aces-hands. In most cases it will be a coinflip what will depend on the quality of the hands. But there is no sense in folding good hands with Kings every time because lot’s of your opponents will overplay their Aces-hands (will play on naked Aces) but even versus wraps and hands with other pairs our hand’s equity will be better in most cases.


      I consider wraps to be ideal hands too. Here I mean the full sequence of 4 cards. In case of wraps it is always adds to a hand’s equity if it is double or single suited but as a rule wraps are played to build a straight. Such a hand will probably have blocking outs (blockers) that will decrease your opponent’s chances to complete his/her flush draw. No doubt, the presence of suited Aces in your wrap will make it stronger.
      Wraps are good for calling raise with though I do not much raise with them. Nevertheless, I recommend aggressive players not only raise or call a raise but also reraise with qualitative wraps, e.g., 9:heart: J:diamond: T:heart: 8:diamond: или A:spade: K:club:J:spade: Q:heart: . This move will help to conceal your hand, especially when you are inclined to reraise with Aces-hands that you get generally more often than good wraps. In this case on hitting a straight you may catch your opponents that will not believe in your continuation bet, having put you on a pair of Aces.
      By the way, on having a one suit wrap do not hurry to fold it. Surely, on a flush draw flop you will seldom win with flush (even if you have the necessary Ace in your hand), but if you manage to build a straight on such a flop you may be relatively confident that your opponent will not outrun you with flush as you have 4 blockers in your hand!

      3. Strong Hands

      Hands with Queens and Jacks

      Hands with Queens and Jacks pretty often need additional strengthening. Sometimes even double suitedness of such hands cannot be enough to call a raise to say nothing of making it. Every time the decision will depend on your position, the size of raise and the quantity of opponents.

      Let us consider the examples:

      Q:heart: Q:spade: J:heart: T:spade:
      J:spade: J:diamond: Q:spade: T:club:
      Q:club:Q:diamond: A:diamond: K:club:
      Q:club:Q:diamond: A:diamond: 5:diamond:
      J:diamond: T:spade: J:club:T:diamond:

      The first hand has good chances to hit a top-set and to build a straight. Such a made hand on a flush draw flop will have 2 blockers versus a flush. The next hand has practically the same opportunities and I do not think it is much worse than the first one.
      The third hand is very strong. We can expect hitting top-set, catching nut flush and straights. One more important point about this hand: we have an Ace and a King and it greatly lessens our opponent’s chances to hit sets of Kings and Aces.
      The fourth hand has chances to hit top-set and nut flush (but there is one blocker in our hand) and an opportunity to build a wheel.
      The hand from the last example consists of two middle pairs that, however, will hit top-set, especially in non-raised pots. We also have 2 blockers for a flush.

      Like I mentioned before, I raise with these hands very seldom. In the reraised (raise+reraise pre-flop) pots I practically never play JJ-hands and if I have Queens – I prefer to play with hands mentioned in the first and third examples. But I also take into consideration two aspects: my position and the possibility that one of the raisers can reraise again or even push all-in.
      Let us imagine that the initial raiser is a short stack. Being reraised, he is very likely to push all-in pre-flop. But it is not bad for us as the second aggressor will have no option to reraise more to squeeze us out of the pot (actually it depends on the poker-room you are playing in). But if we deal with a big stack in the same situation and we know that he plays and raises with qualitative hands, in this case it is better to fold Queens.

      Incomplete wraps

      In this part of the article we will see the examples of good hands that are lower gapers and a 3-card wrap+suited Ace.

      Here are the examples:

      K:spade: J:heart: Q:heart: 9:spade:
      A:club:3:spade: 4:club:5:heart:
      7:heart: 6:heart: 5:club:3:diamond:
      8:heart: 9:heart: T:spade: A:spade:
      7:spade: 6:diamond: A:diamond: 8:club:

      The hand from the first example can build nut straight and flush, in the case if the necessary Ace will come on board.
      The second hand has the same chances but we will be after nut flush on a flush draw.
      The third hand’s equity is worse than that of the two first hands. It can build a straight but it will have only blockers for flush.
      The next hand is strong because it has a suited Ace and two blockers for opponent’s flush of hearts. Besides, A and T are cards of the one straight therefore we can additionally hit broadway with them. Compare it with the last hand that has no such an opportunity.

      Hands with middle and lower pairs

      I treat pairs from 7 to Jacks to lower and middle ones. I have already given some examples of good hands with Jacks but usually I play them the same way as I play hands from this group. As well as we had different groups of Aces-hands we will consider several groups with pairs. Here I will not pay special attention to availability of single or double suitedness in a hand as such hands will always have only blockers and will never build nut flushes. Nevertheless, you should keep in mind that to have double suitedness is always better than not to have it. ;)

      a) Pair+wrap


      b) Pair+suited Ace

      7:heart: 7:diamond: 8:heart: A:diamond:
      A:diamond: J:spade: T:diamond: T:club:

      As you can see the quality of such hands may vary considerably. The first hand can hit a set, nut flush and we will have some minor chances for hitting a straight but the second hand’s chances for straight are better as all the cards are broadway ones.
      The third hand has less chance to build a straight as there are only two cards from wheel. Besides, we will have one blocker in our hand if we chase after a flush.

      c) Two pairs


      The way one plays these hands depends much on our position. You can learn it from the last part of the article.

      4. "False Friends" Hands

      This part of the article is devoted to the hands that may seem pretty playable at first sight but in fact they are not worth playing. Very often such hands will have double suitedness but you have to pay attention to the cards themselves.

      K:spade: J:diamond:9:diamond:8:spade:
      A:spade: 2:heart: 3:heart: 5:club:
      J:heart: J:spade: 7:spade: 2:heart:
      A:club:9:heart: 8:diamond:7:diamond:
      T:heart: 2:diamond:T:diamond:2:heart:
      A:spade: 2:club:A:diamond:5:heart:
      K:spade: 3:club:K:club:4:heart:

      Surely, there are a lot of such hands but I hope the above mentioned examples would suffice. Let us investigate them.
      The first example’s hand has too much gaps that will complicate building of straight and a flush will not be nuts as a rule. By the way, if there would be a Queen instead of King in this hand, I suppose such a hand would be even worse. We would have better chances for straight but less chance for nut flush.
      It is very likely that you would like to see the flop with this hand and you actually can do that but this hand is too weak to play in the raised pot. This is a top gaper and it has no outs for nut flush. And even if you hit something like a trips of Aces, you will very often lose to the opponent with a higher kicker.
      And again I want to attract your notice to the hands with Jacks and other lower pairs. In the raised pot you cannot play your set of Jacks if there is Ace of King on the flop and your opponents show aggression. And evidently we cannot think of making a nut flush with this hand.
      The next hand is a 3-card wrap but it has no suited Ace. So we can only build straight but we will have fewer chances as compared to a full wrap.
      You will quite often get hands where one pair is a middle pair and the other is a lower one. But practically always such hands should be folded. Practically, you play only to catch the top-set of Tens that can be easily dominated by a higher set or other combinations.
      The next hand is practically a naked suited Ace. No doubt, both 6 and 9 and 9 and J are parts of straights but even if you manage to hit a flop and get a straight it will be usually very vulnerable as your opponents will have more cards for redraw to a better straight.
      The last two hands are two big pairs without any serious strengthening. The first one has chances to build a straight and the other one can hit flush. I never make a raise with such hands and when I call a raise I take into consideration my position and the size of the raise.

      5. Position Play

      The importance of position in Omaha cannot be overstated. As a rule, there are more players that want to see the flop than in Holdem. So, the later our position is, the more money we can save and thus win. Playing on the earlier positions we will have situations then, for example, the BB makes such a bet that allows us to chase after our draw with right odds but a reraise made by some player from the later position will make us to fold our hand. And vice versa having a position on the whole table we have more opportunities to squeeze our opponents out of the pot and to protect our made hand.
      But the position is also very important for choosing a starting hand – the worse our hand is the later position we have to sit in. The importance of position is so great that in the late position having favorable conditions I can even call a raise with the hand that I would fold if I played from UTG.

      In the beginning of the article speaking of monster-hands I told that I always play them aggressively. Actually, being in early position (UTG, UTG1-MP1,2 (UTG3 is absent because I play 9-max tables) I can limp such hands in the hope that I will make a reraise. What factors should you pay attention to, if you decide to make such a move? Let us imaging that we are sitting in the MP2 with a pair of DS Aces. UTG and MP1 limped, I limp too and somebody after me also decides to join the limping-party. It is very likely that somebody from the late position will make a pot size raise to reduce the number of people in the pot. I also take into consideration the style of players in the late positions. In situations when I limp with monster hands I want to see an aggressive player in one of the later positions. By the way, if there is such a player I can make a raise from UTG myself. This raise will be small as there are only blinds in the pot and this raise will be reraised often.
      If we examine the way I play wrap hands from early positions, I can say that I really seldom raise with them, may be only when it is a wrap of broadway cards with a suited Ace. In general the wraps are good to play in the raised pots but if you show aggression from early position you will have to act first on flop. According to my experience, there are much more flops that suit for continuation bets with suited Aces (Kings) than for this kind of bet with a wrap. As a rule, with a big suited pair we will have at least the pair itself and often flush-draw and/or a top-set. It is more dangerous and more expensive to make a continuation bet in several opponents when you did not hit flop with a wrap.
      But as you understand it would be a mistake to raise only with big suited pairs. Our opponents can make a read on us and we will be called even by not very qualitative hands that have incomplete wraps on lower and middle cards. Their reckoning is quite reasonable: you are playing with big cards, this reduces your chances to meet these cards on flop and automatically improves their chances to hit flop. Thus, they will more often catch sets (and even pot-sets) and straights with such hands as middle pair+wrap. So, we have to raise with middle wraps, say it will be wraps from 7-T to 9-Q. I prefer to do it being in later positions (MP3, CO, BU). I can even do a reraise if I have a DS wrap as a deceptive move. I am more likely to do it if I have a note that the initial aggressor raises only hands with big pairs.

      Now it is time to discuss what hands I do not play without a position. First of all it will be all the naked pairs to the Jacks inclusive. I can limp naked Queens but I will easily fold such a hand if I meet a considerable raise. If the pot will be reraised pre-flop I will fold both naked Kings and Aces. Without a position we cannot know if there will be other raises or not. Besides, with a naked big pair we can catch only a top-set but like I told you that in the raised pots our chances to hit set are usually not so big.
      I also try not to limp incomplete wraps (except for lower gapers) and hands with lower and middle pairs. These are not bad but still marginal hands and you always should have a position to make them playable in the raised pots. It goes without saying that I fold all “false-friends” hands, except for examples with Kings and Aces, which I will not play in the re-raised pots but can call a raise if I have enough opponents and the size of raise is considerably small.
      In the late positions beginning with MP3 I limp both hands with incomplete wraps and middle and lower pairs. With qualitative hands of these types I can call a raise and this decision will depend as usual on the size of raise and the number of opponents.
      Small Blind is the last position to discuss. I pretty often complete from this position. I play very loose if the pot was not raised. But in any case I easily fold hands without any potential. Completing with not a very good hand you should mention the aggressiveness of the Big Blind. If he/she raises a lot then even a small raise will force some of players (including us) to fold because we cannot play with a low-quality hand without a position.

      6. Conclusion and Outlook

      We have given some recommendations on choosing of starting hands in Omaha at Full Ring tables and have examined hands of different quality beginning with monster-hands to the hands that should not be played at all. We have also discussed the ways we play different types of hands in different positions. So, if you want to master fast estimation of starting hands in Omaha you should always keep in mind that we are chasing after such made hands as a top-set, nut straight and nut flush, thus, our starting hand must have a big pair, a wrap or a suited Ace respectively.

      (с) Ratatuj, 2008
  • 25 replies
    • Jim9137
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      I love that article. It explains the very basics of hand selection in PLO in a nicely sectioned manner; however, at short handed tables, you have to treat hand selection a little bit differently.

      More often than not pots are won by presenting hands rather than by holding them, which is never going to happen in full ring tables unless by some freak occurance you are in a heads-up pot. Big pairs increase in value while drawing hands only benefit if you can convince your opponent that you don't have the hand that you are saying that you have (which, if you are known to bluff, won't be too hard at the lower levels :D ). Therefore, position is paramount of importance. Playing pots from OOP can be good with good pair hands, as you will get C/R by drawing hands more often when you hit the set, but otherwise you should be passive before you get close to button.

      You can still play the very good hands mentioned above, but the rake will eat your winnings, and it can be frustrating when you only win a small pot with a set of kings after a long dry spell.


      And one more important note that I feel should be mentioned - every PLO hand is playable in certain situations, and most hands are not playable in most of situations. AAKQ ds might look good, but on an unrelated flop 245 with a raise and reraise, it should be mucked - not pushed with! Too many people overplay their big pairs/mediocre draws disguised in good hands, don't be one of them.
    • Ratatuj
      Joined: 27.08.2007 Posts: 14,428
      Thanks for your reply, Jim. Actually, I declared in the intro that the article is for FR tables, so I fully agree with your ideas about HU and 6max tables. And, surely, I didn't want to write about post-flop play )

      By the way, I think it won't be a bad idea if somebody else would write something on OPL Hi from his own experience. Maybe some hints or features, maybe play in some concrete situations.
    • Jim9137
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      It's a big issue for most new players that they don't let go of their good hands after the flop falls unrelated to their hand; compare this to people chasing low draws on Q98 flop with A2 in omaha hi/lo or omaha eight-or-better. It's a point that I feel should be stressed.

      But as a more direct comment on your OP, I think most wheel draws should be avoided. Any medium rundown hand usually dominates them, so there is not much point in investing much money without position and out of the blinds with a hand like A543 with a suited ace (an exception could be if whole table likes to limp and play passively, then a hand like that would be a money maker). And 3 in AKJ3 usually is nothing but a dangler, unless the flop is very specific (and again, in 245 flop, it's not uncommon for someone to have 63 in FR tables). As for gappers, I subscribe to the belief that the lower the gap is in the hand, the more valuable the hand is.

      A more advanced play preflop would be playing middle rundown hands in a pot that has been raised and reraised, because most of the time, you are ahead of a broadway hand and big pair, which are the most likely hands the raiser and reraiser have, but if you have a hand like QQTJ, that is going to be a tight call, because the case might be that all your outs are mostly gone. I know people who will happily pay with crud because when they hit just a twopair in an undangerous flop, they are sure to get paid because of the size of the pot as aces can't fold (nor do they really want to, in most cases).


      I have been writing on my experiences in PLO over the Finnish forum in my own blog there, but it was recently that I discovered this section. I mostly play short handed though, because the table offering for full tables is nearly nonexistent over FTP at the stakes I play. But hearing other people's thoughts on PLO is always welcome, so I will probably post more often here.
    • SoyCD
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Wow thank you Ratatuj for this great contribution!

      Starting hand selection in Omaha is one of the hardest things - and you've managed to create a good overview.

      I hope posts like this can get this section of the forum to liven up a bit more :)

      Best regards,
    • Solomaextra
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Great! I always wanted starting hand charts for omaha hi, but what about shorthanded tables? How do I adjust my range for 6max?
    • chenny8888
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      basically solomaextra, we can loosen up way more in position. i think what hands we can play really really really depends on our opponents, so i think charts aren't going to be much use in that respect.
    • Jim9137
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      The looser the table, the less hands and more aggressively you should play them preflop. The tighter the table, you can play more hands and at a certain point, get away with smaller raises.

      But your hand selection will instantly change if you have a particularly loose LAG right on the left of you. You can't play as many hands, as he is bound to call you with crap and he can always outplay you out from flops that you missed. Therefore, you have to stick to good hands and hope for a nice flop - or maybe even change spot if the possibility comes up. It's even worse if you have a really, really big fish on the left of you, since he can take advantage of you, and you can't take advantage of him properly. Eitherway - money leak, avoid.

      So all your questions are answered by position, position and position. :)
    • Pironeski
      Joined: 19.11.2008 Posts: 2,334
      Nice article. I was wondering if you would allow me to translate it to portuguese and put it on my blog on the portuguese community, of course with all credits to you. I just think that this article is really good and my friends of the portuguese forum deserve this kind of quality. Thanks in advance.
    • Ratatuj
      Joined: 27.08.2007 Posts: 14,428
      yeah you can. with my (c) )
    • carebax
      Joined: 04.03.2007 Posts: 73
      Good read, thanks. : )
    • OlivierLu
      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 5,525
      Very nice post. I'd like to add something important about incomplete (1gap) wrap. This should be added next to this section:

      Originally posted by Ratatuj
      Incomplete wraps

      In this part of the article we will see the examples of good hands that are lower gapers and a 3-card wrap+suited Ace.

      Here are the examples:

      K:spade: J:heart: Q:heart: 9:spade:
      A:club: 3:spade: 4:club: 5:heart:
      7:heart: 6:heart: 5:club: 3:diamond:
      8:heart: 9:heart: T:spade: A:spade:
      7:spade: 6:diamond: A:diamond: 8:club:

      The hand from the first example can build nut straight and flush, in the case if the necessary Ace will come on board.
      The second hand has the same chances but we will be after nut flush on a flush draw.
      The third hand’s equity is worse than that of the two first hands. It can build a straight but it will have only blockers for flush.
      The next hand is strong because it has a suited Ace and two blockers for opponent’s flush of hearts. Besides, A and T are cards of the one straight therefore we can additionally hit broadway with them. Compare it with the last hand that has no such an opportunity.
      (с) Ratatuj, 2008
      Look to this 2 hands : 7:h6:h5:c3 and 7:h5:h4:c3. They look equivalent right ? It is not ! Let's look to board these two hands will flop wrap and the number of outs to the nut.

      7653 like these flops with following outs to the nut straight:
      flop -> (nb.outs) cards to the nuts
      24* -> (13) A,2,5,6
      45* -> (11) 2,3,8
      34* -> (10) 2,6,7
      48* -> (9) 5,6,7
      46* -> (7) 2,3
      25* -> (4) 4
      26* -> (4) 4
      35* -> (4) 4 + boat (+4 outs)
      36* -> (4) 4 + boat (+4 outs)
      78* -> (4) 4
      23* -> (4) 4
      A2* -> (4) 4
      A4* -> (4) 2
      47* -> (3) 3
      total = 85 + 8 outs for a full house

      7543 like these flops with following outs to the nut straight:
      flop -> (nb.outs) cards to the nuts
      A3* -> (10) 2,4,5
      A4* -> (10) 2,3,5
      A5* -> (10) 2,3,4
      A2* -> (9) 3,4,5
      26* -> (9) 3,4,5
      23* -> (8) A,6
      24* -> (8) A,6
      25* -> (8) A,6
      36* -> (7) 2,4
      56* -> (7) 2,3
      37* -> (4) 6 + boat (+4 outs)
      47* -> (4) 6 + boat (+4 outs)
      34* -> (4) 6 + boat (+4 outs)
      35* -> (4) 6 + boat (+4 outs)
      68* -> (3) 4
      46* -> (3) 3
      67* -> (2) 3
      total = 110 outs to the nut straight + 16 outs for a full house

      Now the point is clear. 7543 is much better than 7653. So the conclusion is:

      One gap wrapper is a good starting hand. These hands increase in value when the gap is in the run high.
    • authman
      Joined: 07.08.2008 Posts: 811
      Olivier, I think you have made some mistakes.
      It is much better to have the gap in the bottom part of the wrap than to have it in the top part.

      For instance, in your calculations, with 7543, with flop A3, why do you consider the 4 and the 5 as outs to the nuts? They aren't.
      Or with flop A4. You are again considering the 3 and the 5 as outs to the nuts, and the are neither.

      Best regards.
    • OlivierLu
      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 5,525
      Actually, you are right, I've made some mistakes. However, what I said is still right. One gap wrapper made more nut straight when the gap is in the run high. I've learned that from a concurrent site of PS. Of course, I won't advertise it, but the coach is fslexcduck and won one WSOP PLO bracelet (and other stuff).
    • Jim9137
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      These type of hands tend to hit the A-5. 7653 won't hit the nuts in 5-8 range, and not so easily in the A-5 either. I believe this is more the reason than all the low gappers hitting the nuts more often. In general you don't want to play the A-5 range at all, for the reason that it's hard to flop the nuts (7543 rarely hits in the 5-9 range), and even harder to flop the nuts with a redraw (discounting suits).

      Until someone proves to me that QT98 fares better than QJT8, or that T876 is better than T986, I'll remain skeptical. Of course, I'm too lazy to process this on my own.
    • TerrorBlade
      Joined: 16.10.2007 Posts: 1,922
      Originally posted by OlivierLu
      Actually, you are right, I've made some mistakes. However, what I said is still right. One gap wrapper made more nut straight when the gap is in the run high. I've learned that from a concurrent site of PS. Of course, I won't advertise it, but the coach is fslexcduck and won one WSOP PLO bracelet (and other stuff).

      She made a mistake in the video, she actually meant the opposite - it makes more straights if the gap in the run is low, which makes far more sense.
    • OlivierLu
      Joined: 17.11.2007 Posts: 5,525
      She is not the only one to argue that. See the details here :

      and particularly this picture :

      I've done the math (completely taking my time on a paper),but I'm way too lazy to rewrite it here.
      Gap in the run high are (a bit) weaker.
    • Jim9137
      Joined: 13.11.2007 Posts: 5,608
      I shall quote that article:

      "Also note that none of these hands contains a gap at the top of the hand, as having a gap at the top marginalizes virtually all drawing hands (with the exception of A-Q-J-X or A-Q-10-X), for reasons discussed in depth in Pot-Limit Omaha Poker: The Big Play Strategy."

      I don't know the exact math myself, so I can only rely on Hwang's word (a fallacy, I know). But he also goes on speaking about flopping dominated draws - such as JT76 being 2-1 dog against QJT7 on 98x flop.
    • gadget51
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      I use Omaha software for both Hi and O8 but I don't know if I'm allowed to post the name here, so I'll avoid that.
      Anyway, ranking relies on a points system (HPoints) that clearly show (via the Hpoints allocated) that gappers with the gap at the top end are less valuable than if at the bottom end. Intuitively, this would make sense as per previously posted explanations.
    • Ratatuj
      Joined: 27.08.2007 Posts: 14,428
      I guess you mean Omaha Indicator? yes, your're allowed to name soft it's not forbidden.
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