[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL50 JJ vs 3bet

    • duder1n0
      duder1n0
      Gold
      Joined: 07.07.2009 Posts: 5,317
      $50.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players -

      BB: $58.76
      UTG: $50.00
      Hero (CO): $56.30
      BTN: $50.21
      SB: $87.47

      Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is CO with J :diamond: J :heart:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN raises to $4.31, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.81

      Flop: ($9.37) 4 :spade: 8 :diamond: 6 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $4.50, Hero calls $4.50

      Turn: ($18.37) 5 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $9.50, Hero folds


      BTN



      Preflop call? 4bet/fold?
      After calling, maybe it's better to ch/fold already on the flop, as his flop cbet in 3bet pots is 56%, so rather only for value...
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello pcfmcc02,

      Preflop: Might be much better to just 4bet/Fold vs such a guy instead calling cause we can't be sure if we even getting the set-mining odds here.

      As played
      Postflop: Well, the problem is that he is still going to maybe even 2nd barrel it, therefore might be safer just to leave it alone here whilst his CB is also rather towards CB made hands only style.

      Best Regards.
    • Verum
      Verum
      Black
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 1,309
      regarding preflop...
      while we might not get the set mining odds...can't we still call because we will take it home uninproved sometimes. If we do argue postflop, that we might be able to x/f the flop because he cbets so honestly, shouldn't we win some pots, given that we have JJ and he a 9% range?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Verum
      regarding preflop...
      while we might not get the set mining odds...can't we still call because we will take it home uninproved sometimes. If we do argue postflop, that we might be able to x/f the flop because he cbets so honestly, shouldn't we win some pots, given that we have JJ and he a 9% range?
      Yes, that's also a possibility to play it but I'd be more inclined to do that with those guys who also are willing to CB a lot more. With that guy the problem is that I am pretty sure he is capable of 2nd barreling the turn, especially when he makes such sizes which will tell us that his 2nd barreling size wouldn't even take a lot money from him but meanwhile gains tons of fold equity.
    • Verum
      Verum
      Black
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 1,309
      shouldn't a guy that cbets more be tougher to play agaist OOP?
      This guy will almost never bluff cbet, so my proposed plan was always folding to a cbet and continuing when he checks the flop back.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Verum
      shouldn't a guy that cbets more be tougher to play agaist OOP?
      This guy will almost never bluff cbet, so my proposed plan was always folding to a cbet and continuing when he checks the flop back.
      When they CB a lot more then it also means that they have a lot of bluffy hands in their ranges but meanwhile vs a small % we have problem that we don't get that great equity whichever he CBs.
    • Verum
      Verum
      Black
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 1,309
      I get that, but I feel like I am not making my question clear enough.

      You are saying that you would prefer to have a guy be a looser cbeter, so your equity grants a flop call. Am I right?

      I am asking whether a tight cbeter isn't easier to play. Against him we can fold and will not make a bad decision. Versus the other guy we might face a second barrel on certain cards and not have a clue what to do. So while a loose cbeter grants a flop call(looking at just this street) and a tight one does not, do we not have negative ev on following streets vs the looser guy?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Verum
      I get that, but I feel like I am not making my question clear enough.

      You are saying that you would prefer to have a guy be a looser cbeter, so your equity grants a flop call. Am I right?

      I am asking whether a tight cbeter isn't easier to play. Against him we can fold and will not make a bad decision. Versus the other guy we might face a second barrel on certain cards and not have a clue what to do. So while a loose cbeter grants a flop call(looking at just this street) and a tight one does not, do we not have negative ev on following streets vs the looser guy?
      Yep, I'd rather play vs high 3bettor + loose CBettor than vs a guy who is pretty tight + CBs very rarely. Of course we can pick a specific line vs the guy cause we practically just set-mine only vs him but I'd say the bigger value though comes from the agro guy. Though vs even an agro guy we might even 4bet for value.