[NL2-NL10] NL10: A8s questionable 2nd barrel

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1871594
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BB: $7.34 - VPIP: 35, PFR: 24, 3B: 8, AF: 1,8, Hands: 34
      Hero (UTG): $10.61 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 19, 3B: 5, AF: 4,6, Hands: 57711
      CO: $17.17 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 15, 3B: 8, AF: 0,0, Hands: 40
      BTN: $10.15 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 17, 3B: 9, AF: 0,0, Hands: 66
      SB: $3.64 - VPIP: 48, PFR: 4, 3B: 5, AF: 0,8, FoldTocBetFlop: 25(8), FoldTocBetTurn: 0(2), WTS: 37, Hands: 50

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with 8 :diamond: A :diamond:
      Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.70) 3 :spade: T :heart: 7 :spade: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, SB calls $0.40

      Turn: ($1.50) Q :club: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.80, SB calls $0.80

      River: ($3.10) 9 :heart: (2 players)
      SB bets $1.00, Hero folds

      Don't think I like the 2nd barrel here. The Q might even improve his range sometimes + he is not really folding too much postflop.
  • 7 replies
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Preflop I'd probably just fold it.

      What's your reasoning for betting the flop vs such station? I prefer to check back and see a free card.

      On the turn Q improves his range and I really don't think that any pair is folding especially vs 1/2 bet.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      You are right: the cBet on the flop is close at best. It's not the worst spot, I think, since we still have an overcard + some backdoor straight draws + we can even have the best hand, but preference should be given to a check behind given his fold to cBet stat on the flop.

      I still think, however, that the preflop openraise is doable. The only reason speaking against it that I can think of is BB's somewhat high 3B percentage but the sample is very small + I am raising from UTG so it is not that big a concern. We can get into a pot IP vs loose fish with a decent hand here very often, so should be a good openraise.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      I don´t mind c-bet with sometimes the best hand and if you´re always going to check back/fold to turn bet ui then it is very easy to play against you. Q is not the worst card, but since 48/4 would not fold turn that often I would prefer only going for value that spot and try to check it down- your A high might be easily ahead against draws and if he is bad valuebettor then you can make even case calling his river bet (in the end it does not make that much difference- if you´re barreling turn and would give up river= same amount than checking back turn and calling river)- but that is always player specific and if river is 9, J, spade or some other bad card I think folding is perfectly fine

      best regards,
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Veriz do you think this is a good cBet spot? Not sure if I can agree. As played, do you also think that we have to 2nd barrel this card? Not really sure.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      equity wise A8d is around 50%:

      board: 3sTh7s
      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      Ad8d 45.61% 228,069 18,920
      50% 54.39% 273,751 18,920

      - I think your equity is mostly over 50%, since he would 3-bet his aces and other premium hands. Also if you c-bet you don´t give him option bluffing on the turn (which might fold your better hand) and he may fold some of his better hands (like A9, AT).
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Not exactly sure how you got 50%. After putting a realistic range, excluding AA and KK (we can't really tell which strong hands are good enough for him to make a 3Bet, i.e. whether he 3Bets QQ-JJ or AJ–AK, but even if we exclude those hands we are not getting 50% according to my range (JJ-22,AJs-A2s,K2s+,Q2s+,J6s+,T6s+,96s+,85s+,74s+,63s+,53s+,43s,AJo-A2o,K6o+,Q7o+,J8o+,T8o+,97o+,87o,76o,65o). Depending on some hands we take out/put in we get 45% at best (ties included) + he is not folding to cBets so we can't really assume we have a lot of fold equity. So this is close on the flop and once he calls the flop cBet we can't even know if he can fold a weak pair + the Q still improves a part of his range. So, I think we are talking here about a somewhat close spot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      I do agree that I'd rather just Check the flop, vs such a guy who doesn't even fold much you will never have the possibility to get rid of his hands, nor we can't 2nd barrel it for value. Cause you practically never know where you stand unless you improve. He is passive enough to Check it through if he doesn't have a hand.

      Best Regards.