[NL2-NL10] nl4 99 in sb vs UTG open

    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Holdem
      Prima
      5 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG Player 4 ($4.96) 124bb
      CO Player 5 ($8.76) 219bb
      BTN Player 6 ($3.26) 82bb
      SB Hero ($4) 100bb
      BB Player 2 ($18.08) 452bb

      Pre-Flop: ($0.06, 5 players) Hero is SB 9:spade: 9:club:
      Player 4 raises to $0.12, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold

      Flop: 8:spade: 5:heart: 5:spade: ($0.26, 2 players)
      Hero???


      my thoughts are that donking this flop is the best line. if we have his utg range like 22+ and KQ, AJ+, then he misses a lot. check/folding isn't an option because we have the overpair. check/calling gives us no more information about the hand and we just dont know while being OOP. donk bet is the best line in my opinion because we can donk flop and re-evaluate the turn. if he calls then we can exclude parts of his range. if he raises then we are most likely crushed or at best flipping against 12 outs or something. and if he folds, then fair enough. what are your thoughts?

      my plan would be donk/fold flop, on a blank i continue on the turn, a broadway on the turn is not good given his range so i would probably check/fold it, and if another low spade comes then i bet/fold as well and check/fold the river. is this a bad line?
  • 5 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DrDunne,

      Vs unknown rather let him CB than donk it. Check/Call it and reevaluate the turn, he will most likely give up there if he doesn't have a hand. What does call you if you donk here? Rather better hands.

      Best Regards.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello DrDunne,

      Vs unknown rather let him CB than donk it. Check/Call it and reevaluate the turn, he will most likely give up there if he doesn't have a hand. What does call you if you donk here? Rather better hands.

      Best Regards.
      but surely with a donk they might float us with overcards? so if we call on the flop then we get no information. what's the plan on the turn? check/fold? because then we are just calling the flop to fold the turn does it not make sense just to check/fold the flop if we choose that line? will he often second barrel if he bets such a dry flop like this?
    • jules97
      jules97
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.06.2012 Posts: 1,449
      Lets assume I am villain :)

      I am opening HJ with 22+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,ATo+,KJo+,QJo

      I have seen you are only calling 22-TT. and are folding to cbet 60%

      I see the flop and my equity is 40%. I think you have a PP and this board doesn't look too great to cbet.

      If you donk and your donk bet percentage isn't overly high AND I haven't hit or have a low PP I think I am behind and will look at this as a great opportunity to fold and save myself a cbet. I won't be floating with overcards unless you donk a lot. If I have something I am definitely calling and almost certainly have 99 beat.

      If you check/call, I'm most likely going to check behind on the turn (and probably give up) if I don't hit or have a decent overpair. Unless a K or an A or maybe a spade turns up or and I think I can bet it as a scare card.
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      hey jules :)
      Originally posted by jules97
      Lets assume I am villain :)

      I am opening HJ with 22+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,JTs,T9s,98s,ATo+,KJo+,QJo

      I have seen you are only calling 22-TT. and are folding to cbet 60%

      I see the flop and my equity is 40%. I think you have a PP and this board doesn't look too great to cbet.

      If you donk and your donk bet percentage isn't overly high AND I haven't hit or have a low PP I think I am behind and will look at this as a great opportunity to fold and save myself a cbet. I won't be floating with overcards unless you donk a lot. If I have something I am definitely calling and almost certainly have 99 beat.

      If you check/call, I'm most likely going to check behind on the turn (and probably give up) if I don't hit or have a decent overpair. Unless a K or an A or maybe a spade turns up or and I think I can bet it as a scare card.
      i just wrote out a big long reply but it went right back round on itself and my conclusion was that by donking, if we get called then we are having to give up on the turn almost always unless we turn a FH. so i guess we can't donk flop, check/fold turn. because that's weak and if he is floating us with overs, then our check on the turn is giving him the perfect opportunity to take the pot down as he planned. so our donk flop line is bad because he folds mostly trash, and when he does call he either has us beaten or he is going to float us, against which we can't do anything on the turn because we are forced to check/fold since donk flop and bet turn is overplaying. or am i wrong?
    • jules97
      jules97
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.06.2012 Posts: 1,449
      Hey Dune,

      Yeah that's what I think.

      I am trying to work on spots like this. Where I bet and it only makes opponents fold worse hands but continue with better hands.

      Also, I don't think it's safe to assume an opponent would float with over cards unless you had some kind of read.

      But hey don't listen to me! Just something else to think about, listen to the coaches! :f_biggrin: