Help... What am I doing wrong today?

    • spreeboy
      spreeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2010 Posts: 223
      Hi,

      I need feedback from you guys regarding my play today. I just can't figure out what is happening. I have played about 300K hands in 2NL at PS and so far today may be the worse from my experience playing this limit.

      I would appreciate any help from anyone who could interpret today's graph for me. I am not that knowledgeable yet on how to interpret data on my Pokertracker.

      I read somewhere that:

      1. the yellow line means that it is your equity? correct?
      2. green line is the outcome of the hand.
      3. If the yellow is above the green line, it means that you got unlucky because your hand is supposde to be the favorite but was cracked

      Please tell me if I understood the relationship of these two lines correctly.

      Problem is, if I am right, then I have every reason to get disappointed by my result during the ~3K hands I played today. I just feel like the site or the Poker Gods are cursing me !!!! Please see the graph below:



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

      Like most micro player, I am also planning to move up. I know that overall game evaluation and insight is mandatory to succeed so I am trying to learn how to self study and correct my leaks.

      Any advice that you can give is appreciated... Thank you!!! :s_biggrin:

      I am playing an average of 3.6K hands per day, 12-tabling for for 3.25 hrs/day. So far I am a winning player on this limit:



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us
  • 10 replies
    • spreeboy
      spreeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2010 Posts: 223
      I am a TAG huhu:



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    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,868
      yellow line only works from the moment that stacks are in. so, if a guy calls a 4bet with A8 for half his stack vs your AK and you ship it in A85 flop, in yellow line terms you're screwed.

      in any case, it might be the case that indeed you didn't do anything super fundamentally horribly wrong today. these days happen.
      your graph is solid and you clearly are a winning player at this limit. (could talk about stats and so on - you seem like a big nit - but well, this has been working for you)

      as to what went wrong this session, probably only you can figure it out. spew tilt? frustration calls? coolers? people chasing everything and hitting it on the river?
      you can look for the "interesting pots" on that session and post them on hand evaluation.


      now on moving up... have you been cashing out? you clearly have played and won enough, that roll is good for nl10 already.
      however nl2->nl5 is a reasonable jump so you might want to play some of it before.
    • FaTDoGBG
      FaTDoGBG
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.03.2009 Posts: 139
      Move up man... U have the skills and money, bad days happen to all of us, either bad play or variance, sh1t happens :) Your second graph is great, keep grinding :D
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,967
      Originally posted by spreeboy
      I need feedback from you guys regarding my play today. I just can't figure out what is happening. I have played about 300K hands in 2NL at PS and so far today may be the worse from my experience playing this limit.
      I'm not trying to minimize the train-wreck feeling you get after a session like that, but if that is your worst session ever, you have a lot to be thankful for.

      The effect of a session like this is to provide perspective. The next bad session won't seem so bad, if is not as bad as this one. Sometime -- hopefully far -- in the future you will have a worse session, which will become the yardstick to measure bad sessions agains.


      I would appreciate any help from anyone who could interpret today's graph for me. I am not that knowledgeable yet on how to interpret data on my Pokertracker.

      I read somewhere that:

      1. the yellow line means that it is your equity? correct?
      2. green line is the outcome of the hand.
      3. If the yellow is above the green line, it means that you got unlucky because your hand is supposed to be the favourite but was cracked

      Please tell me if I understood the relationship of these two lines correctly.

      Problem is, if I am right, then I have every reason to get disappointed by my result during the ~3K hands I played today. I just feel like the site or the Poker Gods are cursing me !!!! Please see the graph below:
      Yes, you are right, but as Tomaloc says, the yellow line only applies to hands where you are ALL-IN. In all other cases, it just tracks parallel to the showdown or non-showdown lines.

      Really, the only way to get meaningful understanding from the All-in EV line is to filter results so that only hands were you were all-in are to be displayed.


      Like most micro player, I am also planning to move up. I know that overall game evaluation and insight is mandatory to succeed so I am trying to learn how to self study and correct my leaks.

      Any advice that you can give is appreciated... Thank you!!! :s_biggrin:
      My advice: Move up
      Play a session at the next highest limit to see how it feels.
    • abhi147
      abhi147
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2011 Posts: 935
      Usually not very important if youre winning is the RED LINE
      I think may be for todays play see the hands you lost money without showdown

      That may/may not be a big leak but worth taking a look at
      If youre playing a very TAG game and still have a red line like that then i think theres a leak.
      If youre playing a lag style you are bound to have that sorta red line

      And please dude you are doing really good but it is high time to move up the limits
      Youre wasting time at this limit according to your overall graph

      Start taking shots at little higher limits with fewer tables
      I am sure youll do well
    • spreeboy
      spreeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2010 Posts: 223
      @Tomaloc
      Yes I did cashed out twice. At first, I never thought of moving up since I am only playing this part-time since I have a job. (more of just a hobby thing).

      However, I figured 2NL is just too loose and there is no way I could improve as a poker player (though I'm sure I will continue cashing out). I have been trying to improve my redline but no luck, its like a -10 degree slope, because fold equity in this limit is close to non-existent.



      I'm not trying to minimize the train-wreck feeling you get after a session like that, but if that is your worst session ever, you have a lot to be thankful for.
      Actually, I did had a more devastating downswing (which I will post later), but it is much more of an experiment in 5NL and I am not playing my comfortable style so I guess the result is expected, so I was able to accept that. However, when I moved down to 2NL today and played my solid approach on today's 2NL session but lose that much. Maybe that's why I'm upset.


      The effect of a session like this is to provide perspective. The next bad session won't seem so bad, if is not as bad as this one. Sometime -- hopefully far -- in the future you will have a worse session, which will become the yardstick to measure bad sessions agains.
      -Thanks, this helps.


      Yes, you are right, but as Tomaloc says, the yellow line only applies to hands where you are ALL-IN. In all other cases, it just tracks parallel to the showdown or non-showdown lines.
      -Thank you both of you, I'll do some hand filtering later.


      My advice: Move up
      Play a session at the next highest limit to see how it feels.
      -Actually, I did. I played since Aug 21 until yesterday and this is what happened:



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

      First, I 6-tabled and played a solid TAG but soon realized that I could not crush 5NL with my TAG-nittish style, SOOOO..... I experimented using the stats below:



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us


      1. I am not too alien of using the stats above (though it shows negative profit for now). If you refer to my overall 2NL graph, you'll notice that my winnings improved greatly on the last third-half. This is because I transitioned to a semi-LAG (if there is such a thing). The LAG style worked on my first the days on 5NL, however, it backfired eventually and I am currently doing my homework to fix it. MONEY BURNED but its ok I'll get it back soon. :rolleyes:

      2. My main goal or mission on moving to 5NL is to have a graph with an acceptable redline. I am convinced that most profitable 2NL players may have a downward redline because as I've said, fold equity is not that reliable on this level. I would understand if you guys think that I am a fish for risking my BR for this stupid goal, since anyone could still be a winning player even with a downward RL. However, what can I do? I want to improve it. ;(

      My unattractive 2NL redline:



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us



      ============MY THOUGHTS ON 2NL vs. 5NL:===================

      1. I think 2NL-5NL may be one of the hardest limit transition. I am not saying that the high stakes transitions are easy. However, based on my observation, advanced skills needed to crush high stakes poker are mandatory starting in 5NL. On 2NL, anybody could crush it half-asleep provided that you play ABC poker, while a lot of 5NL regs are 2NL graduates like me who are in study mode and are absorbing and applying poker concepts little by little. I believe that by the time I crush 5NL, I would have learned the most important skill of all... THINKING!

      2. I decided to move back down 2NL while studying more. I am currently trying to learn about post-flop concepts and at the same time having enough BR for 5NL.

      Anyway, thank you for your insights guys... Good luck at the tables :s_love:
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,868
      forget about your redline. really.
      just try to find a profitable style



      (i can't tell you how to run good though, unfortunately)


      nl2-nl5 is indeed pretty tough because everyone is more serious, ie the regs are guys who also graduated fron nl2 and the fish won't just spaz out with any two because he's feeling like it.

      your "stats below" seem more standard, however you might be putting yourself in too many marginal situations, specially on 3betting. def cut down on tables if you want to try that style.
    • spreeboy
      spreeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.09.2010 Posts: 223
      @ Tomaloc

      Is this a 10NL graph? or higher?

      Nice winrate man. You are very good player obviously. Keep crushing!!! :D
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,868
      it's stars fr25 and fr50 zoom.
      actually i have the hands from nl2, nl5 and nl10 saved but i purged them from the database for performance purposes, but for the day that i truly want to make a lifetime graph they're there :f_biggrin:

      also, thank you sir :spade:
      "very good" is a relative term, i'd say that i'm "somewhat above average". there are some guys here that i really have a lot of respect for.
    • racenutalways
      racenutalways
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 172
      At NL2, you'll have more all ins, your aces and kings get paid off more often.

      Now. N L5 has more reg/nits, they have PT4 or HEM huds on you. You, need to get good at deciphering those stats to beat them.

      6max VPIP should be at least as follows
      UTG 15%, 22-66 and S-conn arent money makers UTG. Pokerstove will help you here if you don't already have it.
      mine looks like this NITTY, but profitable for limits NL5-NL50
      UTG: 77+, A2s+K9s+QTs.QJs,ATo+KJo+
      MP:20%:: add 22-66, add s-conn 67s+ add TJo+, add S-gappers Q9s,J9s.
      CO: 25%:: add A7o+ add s-gppers 8Ts,79s
      BTN: 30% minimum, if NIT with FBS, fold-blind-to-a-steal of 60%+ RFI all aces, all kings, all suited queens, anything connected above 6....That hud will tell you which you can pound on which you can't. Players with a 3B LPS, 3bet late position steal, tighten up.

      Blinds PLAY TIGHT, NO< you don't have gr8 odds to call to catch> YOU ARE OOP out-of-position
      Play same hands as UTG. Concentrate on blind vs blind play, many articles on this. So how do we play the blinds, with balls. My 3Bvs steal is 14%, high, but look at you're hud for high F3B% and raise them liberally. Low F3B we don't 3Bet Axo, JJ+,AQs+ and we 3bet them bigger then normal, FOR VALUE. 3bet to 15bbs+ watch their F3B stat rise :f_cool:

      I can go on n on
      vpip/pfr 18/16 Tight is right,
      blinds is where most regs screw up their winrate, You'll see them with stats of 24/16 or something. #1 rule to be successful is to never CALL. WE 3BET or FOLD. We always raise first in, always fold to 3bet or raise, we never CALL.... MICE call, we are tight AGGRESSIVE, last I checked aggressive don't CALL. They raise :s_o:

      Your hud will tell you which ones are floaters and gr8 candidates to second barrel
      your hud will tell you which bet for value Af of 2 is fit or fold, 3 tricky, 4=spewy, do learn how Af applies to VPIP and WTSD
      QQ,KK become -EV vs some players 3bet% or 4bet% and become easier to fold. do learn 3bet 4 bet 5 bet concept to a tee, ez money at this limit.

      The easiest to beat are the regs, they have 1 gear, they play 5 tables or more, they play in default, learn that default play and ALL REGS become easy..
      Back to the blinds, pairs 22-JJ are hard to play OOP, even vs the worse player in the world, DO NOT SET MINE 100%. Make sure hes a nit that can't fold overpairs, or hes spewy and calls anything down. 3betvsLPS 100%, TT+ you can be prepared to shove vs those whos 4bet% is above 8%, if your 3bet is above 9%. You're a nit, a nit won't be re-rasing you QQ, KK+ and AKs are the hands you'll be up against a LOT.

      peace out hope this helps.