[NL2-NL10] NL10: A4s flop raise vs loose guy

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1881866
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (BB): $10.40 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 19, 3B: 5, AF: 4,6, Hands: 61227
      UTG: $10.76 - VPIP: 11, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 0,0, Hands: 55
      MP: $10.15 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 10,0, Hands: 99
      CO: $6.95 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 17, 3B: 9, AF: 3,1, Hands: 367
      BTN: $9.85 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 29, 3B: 0, AF: 2,0, Hands: 14
      SB: $9.11 - VPIP: 34, PFR: 16, 3B: 11, AF: 1,8, Hands: 67

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 4 :heart: A :heart:
      4 folds, SB raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.20

      Flop: ($0.60) 2 :club: T :diamond: 4 :club: (2 players)
      SB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.33, SB folds

      So I think a raise with our backdoor equity should be pretty doable (we have a pair + overcard + backdoor GS), however, I sort of lack a plan for turn. Since villain is loose we can't really expect to have tons of fold equity vs hands like Tx, maybe even 88–99 on most turns. Even though we can represent the flush well, I am not even sure if villain ever cares about that so barreling on any club might as well not be the best idea vs this guy.

      Probably should just check behind many turns since I can still be ahead of FDs? I mean, I raise the flop and get rid of all sort of overcards (not FD ones though) + sometimes weak pairs like 4x or 55–77. The rest that he calls with on the flop he can still continue with on most turns so shouldn't be the worst plan ever.
  • 7 replies
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Hi Avatars91,

      I like you raise here, it's just the type of hand you should be raising besides your fd's, oesd, sets and maybe AT (we can consider that we have 5 + 1(backdoor equity) = 6 outs).

      I'd continue barreling turn, but not on club cards since he is not folding those on the flop and I think they represent a decent % of his flop calling range.

      On the river we have to do the classical "reevaluation" but I think it would be mostly a check back as we have value vs his missed fd's.

      Best regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I'd continue barreling turn, but not on club cards since he is not folding those on the flop and I think they represent a decent % of his flop calling range.


      When you consider barreling non-club turn cards here you are actually doing it for value vs FDs? Because most of the time I think we don't have much fold equity vs pairs on the turn unless they are very small.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      I think we have decent FE vs J+ nonclub. He can call our flop raise with medium pockets and fold them on the turn.

      We get more value when he calls and we hit on the river.

      Also we get value vs his fd's that call flop call turn and check river (we check back).
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I think we have decent FE vs J+ nonclub.


      Surely not JJ+? The guy is not fullstacked + his stats indicate that he is probably not that great a player – that combined makes me doubt we can ever be sure that he folds anything better than 2nd pair on the turn. He might, that is true, but the reality is that we don't know, and given his parameters I would make an educated guess that it is likely that he more often might not.

      Also we get value vs his fd's that call flop call turn and check river (we check back).


      Does it count as value vs FDs if almost every single FD out there has overcards and is thus even ahead of us?

      Is it logically unacceptable to raise the flop to get him off his overcards, and then just check behind the turn hoping that we either catch one of our outs or that villain had the FD and he missed both his FD and overcard outs and then just gives up?

      Don't get me wrong, I honestly am not 100% sure about what I'm saying here, but these points are sort of important to consider :s_confused:
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      I meant barreling on Overcards that do not complete the fd.

      On the turn his equity halves if he does not hit so I think we are betting for value and also making hands worse than Tx fold a decent % of the time.

      I am experimenting myself with these kind of plays so we can always get veriz's opinion on this but I think it's pretty ok to raise flop, bet turn and evaluate on the river if you have enough FE for another bet or should check back our showdown value.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      On the turn his equity halves if he does not hit so I think we are betting for value and also making hands worse than Tx fold a decent % of the time.


      It is not exactly halved but, of course, reduced significantly (somewhere around –18%). Though yes, on the turn then vs FDs + overs we actually can get value. Although vs his whole range we are sort of hoping to see a fold.

      Thus we pretty much check behind all club turn cards except Ax and keep barreling on non-club overcards (J – A)?

      But yes, maybe let us just ask Veriz, just to be sure, shall we? I believe that your advice makes sense but I just want to know for sure.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      If we are raising this kind of situation then it means we are raising it for value vs such a guy. Doesn't really make sense to turn hand into bluff in that spot and give up on the turn by Checking behind. Instead then play way ahead/behind and reevaluate the turn and play in smaller pots vs the loose guy, who actually has decent equity if he even has just FD -> cause it has decent equity against your pair of 4.

      Which means if we raise the flop then we should be barreling most of the turn cards unless it's a .

      Best Regards.