Red and Blueline | General exploits/reads and adaptions

    • 1mpr0x
      1mpr0x
      Platinum
      Joined: 27.11.2009 Posts: 3,404
      Hi guys,
      had a short talk about red and blues with a friend and been thinking about it alot lately. I want to talk about categorizing ( in a very general way) players by their graphs, getting tendencies and reads out of how their blue and redline run.
      I made some (pretty logical) assumptions about this:

      Positive Blue/Negative Red:
      This is probably the most common style nowadays. I would say that mostlikely weak players have those kind of graphs. They are not capable of making certain moves or decent calldowns. They are probably not that good at handreading and by that easy to exploit. In general I think those guys are the softest regs to play against. They make life easy for you caus they aren't deceptive enough. Their ranges are too narrow, they turn their hands face up etc etc..

      All those aspects are sort of elastic and proportional to the course of red and blue.

      Negative Blue/Positive Red:
      Postflop tendencies are usually aggressive/light. Hard to barrell of hands hard to bluff. They go to SD too light and also have unbalanced bluffing/raising frequencies. Easy to trap Easy to adapt. Hard to put on hands just caus they have so much shit in their range and some valuestuff in between. In general hard to play if you have weak SDV caus they wont let u get to SD cheap. I think as soon as they balance their frequencies abit more they become way tougher any way more deceptive also their blueline will flatten by this or even get positive.

      Positive Blue/Positive Red:
      I don't see alot people capable of playing this style and usually they are big crushers. They have balanced frequencies and are capable of making good calldowns/big moves -> good at handreading. I assume they also have a better sense for weakness than the NegativeBlue/PositiveRed players so it also will be hard to get to SD with weak SDV. I personally think this style turns out to be the most effective in Poker just caus it's so deceptive and balanced.

      Ofcourse there's more styles to add and same graphs can have different playstyles. But their tendencies are almost identical.

      Just would like to hear what you guys think about this. I know I'm being very general and I don't specifically like that. Again I'm just going by very basic tendencies and reads. Figuring out how they play and then adjusting with more specific reads/stats.

      Jason
  • 16 replies
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Nice post Jason. Will have a better read and reply later.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      I think a lot of this has to do with how many tables you are playing. If you are just playing 1-2 tables which is my 'testing new limits' zone, its so much easier to pick out people's bluffs and make "Hero calls" and bluff yourself etc., than if you are doing 6-10. And if you're 24 tabling there's no way you can do this sort of thing well, so your red line is probably going to suffer.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      This sounds interesting Jason, I hope you get some good responses.

      I only have a couple of thoughts on this as I am some way off from being an authority on poker! :D

      Given that we can surely anticipate an [overall] technical improvement in the villains as we move up limits, this would have an effect on the shape of our graph as well?

      There is also metza'a point about multitabling which may restrict our playing style longterm.

      I also don't entirely agree that a Positive Blue/Negative Red necessarily means weakness, we as good thinking and adaptable players, shoud be adjusting to table dynamics constantly and this may indeed be the best strategy given our playing pool. A different player pool may induce a more Positive Blue/Positive Red style of hero's play.

      I'm not even sure if I've explained myself sensibly there, but it's just my thoughts on it.

      Regards,

      Mal.
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      Is this about 6max or HU ? Only players I know @6max with positive red line are marginal winners or b/e players, but I know some HU crushers with good redline. It's pretty hard to get positive red line @6max imo.
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      sharing a graph of a close friend of mine



      Def possible to crush with a big red line
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Originally posted by CallumN
      sharing a graph of a close friend of mine



      Def possible to crush with a big red line

      wow sick graph for 200nl..

      friendyustillplaynl200.jpg
    • CallumN
      CallumN
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2012 Posts: 1,141
      Its alex's graph from 2010 iir.

      Obv hes donating chunks at midstakes now :P
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hey,

      Your thoughts are correct but as you know you can make money with every style. :) With time you will adjust and get better, start improving your nonSD winnings etc. Rather work with the style which has bring you money than try to do something else which you ain't capable of doing. Very often what brings you to when trying to work too much on nonSD winnings is that you will end up spewing a lot money, brings you to the part where you will lose all the money you have made those past few months. -> Afterwards lose confidence in your game, start losing motivation to grind, etc.

      3rd style graph
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212
      here another type of graph.

    • muumionu
      muumionu
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2012 Posts: 816
      lol +1
    • muumionu
      muumionu
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.07.2012 Posts: 816
      Have you guys thought that having red line going down and blue up might mean you're doing good value bets so that your blue line goes nicely up but red might suffer?

      Nice thread btw : )
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Very very thin.
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212


      heres another.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689


      This graph is even sicker than your previous one
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Originally posted by pleno1
      Spungehyustillplaynl2.jpg
      Sick graph tho. Congrats!
    • Spungeh
      Spungeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.06.2011 Posts: 1,212
      Originally posted by holmeboy
      Originally posted by pleno1
      Spungehyustillplaynl2.jpg
      Sick graph tho. Congrats!
      I like to play donk on NL2.. :) it seems to always result in +$10 so its always good :f_biggrin: