Trying to make some money | HU SNG

    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      Who am I?
      Hi, I'm from Poland and 25 years old, playing poker since 21. I wanna improve my english skills and this is why I set up blog in english section. I know for certain that I'm making many mistakes so.. don't hestitate and let me know abt it :f_grin:

      A brief history
      I started playing FL and then switched to NL. In the best moment I've got $7k in my bankroll and was grinding NL100 SH on Rush Poker. Fortunately, I moved my entire bankroll before FTP was gone and started grinding NL100 SH on Stars. I was forced to cash out some and move down to NL50 and then move to BossMedia because of rakeback deal (and move down to NL25 :f_cry: )

      I lost my motivation to grind NLSH and was looking something new... I found it! HU SNG :f_biggrin:

      HU SNG
      Few days ago I started playing $7 turbos on Stars. Also tried some hyper turbos (~50) but variance is too big for me (at least right now). One more time I was forced to cashed out some and deposit just $700 on Stars (I've got $500 more on Skrill). For my needs I have to make $1'000 in a month (lost my job few months ago and still looking) .

      For 5% ROI on 7$ turbos it's ~3'000 SNG in a month, ~750 SNG in a week, ~125 SNG a day times 6days per week (taking one day free :f_thumbsup: ). I'm OK playing 2 tables at a time and it gives me somethin abt 10-12 SNG per hour (small sample :f_grin: ), it gives roughly 11 hours per day! Being 100% honest - I don't think I can make it. I know that I just started HUSNG and my knowledge is pretty small but I'm thinking abt playing $15 turbos - then I need to play just 6 hours a day (with 5% ROI). My plan is to play two tables on $7 until the end of the week and from monday start playing $15. Is it OK or just I would be broke really fast? :f_confused:
  • 34 replies
    • SherlockHolmes2ez
      SherlockHolmes2ez
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.03.2012 Posts: 334
      Originally posted by slimy3
      Who am I?
      Hi, I'm from Poland and 25 years old, playing poker since 21. I wanna improve my english skills and this is why I set up blog in english section. I know for certain that I'm making many mistakes so.. don't hestitate and let me know abt it :f_grin:

      A brief history
      I started playing FL and then switched to NL. In the best moment I've got $7k in my bankroll and was grinding NL100 SH on Rush Poker. Fortunately, I moved my entire bankroll before FTP was gone and started grinding NL100 SH on Stars. I was forced to cash out some and move down to NL50 and then move to BossMedia because of rakeback deal (and move down to NL25 :f_cry: )

      I lost my motivation to grind NLSH and was looking something new... I found it! HU SNG :f_biggrin:

      HU SNG
      Few days ago I started playing $7 turbos on Stars. Also tried some hyper turbos (~50) but variance is too big for me (at least right now). One more time I was forced to cashed out some and deposit just $700 on Stars (I've got $500 more on Skrill). For my needs I have to make $1'000 in a month (lost my job few months ago and still looking) .

      For 5% ROI on 7$ turbos it's ~3'000 SNG in a month, ~750 SNG in a week, ~125 SNG a day times 6days per week (taking one day free :f_thumbsup: ). I'm OK playing 2 tables at a time and it gives me somethin abt 10-12 SNG per hour (small sample :f_grin: ), it gives roughly 11 hours per day! Being 100% honest - I don't think I can make it. I know that I just started HUSNG and my knowledge is pretty small but I'm thinking abt playing $15 turbos - then I need to play just 6 hours a day (with 5% ROI). My plan is to play two tables on $7 until the end of the week and from monday start playing $15. Is it OK or just I would be broke really fast? :f_confused:
      Stars is a great place to play HU SNG I started with 10$ yesterday and today I have 130$ bankroll
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      Ouch, I lost 15 matches in a row and start thinking... hmm maybe I bluff too much? So next game I was only value betting and won - maybe this is good idea to beat this game
    • daun666
      daun666
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 540
      15 :f_eek: its many even for hyper turbos, GL further
    • Statistieken
      Statistieken
      Basic
      Joined: 24.07.2012 Posts: 63
      Originally posted by slimy3
      Ouch, I lost 15 matches in a row and start thinking... hmm maybe I bluff too much? So next game I was only value betting and won - maybe this is good idea to beat this game
      That is a lot, that isn't variance anymore i think. Can you post some hands to discuss here?
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      Originally posted by Statistieken
      Originally posted by slimy3
      Ouch, I lost 15 matches in a row and start thinking... hmm maybe I bluff too much? So next game I was only value betting and won - maybe this is good idea to beat this game
      That is a lot, that isn't variance anymore i think. Can you post some hands to discuss here?
      Yeah, sure! But which one? The last one in the match or when I lost a big pot?

      EDIT:
      Watched some vids and... I was really spewy ;)
    • bjela
      bjela
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2010 Posts: 1,012
      Hey, good luck with HUSNGs.

      Yeah, 1k$ in a month playing 7$ turbos will be hard. But 15s are just a bit tougher than 7s, and 30s are still beatable by a healthy margin. And by that I mean closer to 10% ROI, not 5%.

      Just make sure you're not overdoing it by two-tabling, I think 1-tabling is better at the beginning.

      Oh, and your English is fine ;)
    • Statistieken
      Statistieken
      Basic
      Joined: 24.07.2012 Posts: 63
      Originally posted by slimy3
      Originally posted by Statistieken
      Originally posted by slimy3
      Ouch, I lost 15 matches in a row and start thinking... hmm maybe I bluff too much? So next game I was only value betting and won - maybe this is good idea to beat this game
      That is a lot, that isn't variance anymore i think. Can you post some hands to discuss here?
      Yeah, sure! But which one? The last one in the match or when I lost a big pot?

      EDIT:
      Watched some vids and... I was really spewy ;)
      The best thing to do, is to post hands when you are thinking, that you are doing something wrong!
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      Originally posted by bjela
      Just make sure you're not overdoing it by two-tabling, I think 1-tabling is better at the beginning.
      OK, thanks for an advice - $7 turbo 1 table until the end of the week and from monday $15 turbo 1 table. After 1 week maybe add 1 table more - sounds good


      Originally posted by bjela
      Oh, and your English is fine ;)
      Uff... thanks ;)


      Originally posted by Statistieken
      The best thing to do, is to post hands when you are thinking, that you are doing something wrong!
      So from now I will be marking hands in HM and posting them here. TY!
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      6 hands - just basic stuff. I know it's nothing sexy but I need to know my thinking is good. Anyone can help? ;)

      All hands are from one SNG

      #1
      Flop is good to cbet - dry with one high card. Paired turn is always bet to barrel as a bluf so I'm giving up here. I think any card above T will be good to barrel. Am I right?

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 1,500 (75 bb)
      BB: 1,500 (75 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 7:club: 9:spade:
      Hero raises to 60, BB calls 40

      Flop: (120) 2:spade: 5:club: Q:diamond: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets 70, BB calls 70

      Turn: (260) Q:club: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      River: (260) J:diamond: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      Results: 260 pot
      Final Board: 2:spade: 5:club: Q:diamond: Q:club: J:diamond:
      Hero mucked 7:club: 9:spade: and lost (-130 net)
      BB showed A:heart: 2:heart: and won 260 (130 net)



      #2
      TP on low board - should I xR here? He is cbetting that flop with 100% frequency (hmm... it can be a good board to xR as a bluff?) but when he chooses to 3bet after my xR i have to fold... it's why i just xC. On the turn i'm giving up - he's not barreling with anything worse than my pair. On the river I don't like calling a big bet so I just lead small.

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (BB): 1,260 (63 bb)
      SB: 1,740 (87 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with 8:club: 6:diamond:
      SB raises to 60, Hero calls 40

      Flop: (120) 3:club: 6:heart: 2:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, SB bets 72, Hero calls 72

      Turn: (264) 4:heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, SB checks

      River: (264) Q:spade: (2 players)
      Hero bets 80, SB calls 80

      Results: 424 pot
      Final Board: 3:club: 6:heart: 2:diamond: 4:heart: Q:spade:
      Hero showed 8:club: 6:diamond: and lost (-212 net)
      SB showed K:spade: Q:club: and won 424 (212 net)


      #3
      Wet board - probably hit him. I've got two overs and GS - I check behind because I have no idea what to do when he xR me. On the turn I picked up even more EQ so this is a snap call. River - I have no FE so bluff would be -EV.

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 928 (30.9 bb)
      BB: 2,072 (69.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with T:diamond: J:heart:
      Hero raises to 75, BB calls 45

      Flop: (150) 8:heart: 7:heart: 3:club: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      Turn: (150) 3:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets 90, Hero calls 90

      River: (330) 2:spade: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      Results: 330 pot
      Final Board: 8:heart: 7:heart: 3:club: 3:heart: 2:spade:
      Hero mucked T:diamond: J:heart: and lost (-165 net)
      BB showed 5:spade: 7:spade: and won 330 (165 net)


      #4
      Ouch... i think it's a little bit too loose, right?

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (20/40 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 548 (13.7 bb)
      BB: 2,452 (61.3 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:spade: T:club:
      Hero raises to 548 and is all-in, BB calls 508

      Flop: (1,096) T:diamond: K:club: 3:spade: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: (1,096) 4:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: (1,096) 3:heart: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results: 1,096 pot
      Final Board: T:diamond: K:club: 3:spade: 4:heart: 3:heart:
      Hero showed Q:spade: T:club: and won 1,096 (548 net)
      BB showed 2:club: A:diamond: and lost (-548 net)


      #5
      #5 and #6 is the same. I've got good hand with a good playability , but he is shoving a wide range so... should I fold these hands or maybe limping can be a good idea?

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (25/50 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 896 (17.9 bb)
      BB: 2,104 (42.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q:club: T:club:
      Hero raises to 100, BB raises to 2,104 and is all-in, Hero folds

      Results: 200 pot
      BB mucked and won 200 (100 net)


      #6

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (30/60 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 1,182 (19.7 bb)
      BB: 1,818 (30.3 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with J:heart: 9:heart:
      Hero raises to 120, BB raises to 1,818 and is all-in, Hero folds

      Results: 240 pot
      BB mucked and won 240 (120 net)
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      3 more... vs someone else

      #7
      Shoving here is good? Or maybe better call and shove non-:heart: turn? But what to do on J,T,9?

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 1,490 (74.5 bb)
      BB: 1,510 (75.5 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A:diamond: K:diamond:
      Hero raises to 60, BB calls 40

      Flop: (120) 2:heart: Q:diamond: K:heart: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets 80, BB raises to 180



      #8
      It should be fold preflop (again, he was 3betting me a lot, so maybe this is good idea to start limping that kind of hands?). On the flop I hit perfectly but... ohh I don't think so I've got good odds to call - I made a mistake preflop and folding here is... shit, i have no clue what is the best here!

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (25/50 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 2,095 (41.9 bb)
      BB: 905 (18.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 9:heart: T:heart:
      Hero raises to 100, BB raises to 300, Hero calls 200

      Flop: (600) K:heart: 3:heart: A:spade: (2 players)
      BB bets 300, Hero folds

      Results: 600 pot
      Final Board: K:heart: 3:heart: A:spade:
      Hero mucked 9:heart: T:heart: and lost (-300 net)
      BB mucked and won 600 (300 net)



      #9
      Is it OK to call here and fold some flops, e.g. 924, 765? For shoving preflop I'm a little too deep.

      Poker Stars, $6.71 Buy-in (20/40 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): 985 (24.6 bb)
      BB: 2,015 (50.4 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with J:diamond: K:diamond:
      Hero raises to 80, BB raises to 240, Hero calls 160

      Flop: (480) T:diamond: K:spade: Q:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets 240, Hero raises to 745 and is all-in, BB calls 505

      Turn: (1,970) 5:diamond: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: (1,970) 9:diamond: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results: 1,970 pot
      Final Board: T:diamond: K:spade: Q:heart: 5:diamond: 9:diamond:
      Hero showed J:diamond: K:diamond: and won 1,970 (985 net)
      BB showed Q:club: A:diamond: and lost (-985 net)
    • Statistieken
      Statistieken
      Basic
      Joined: 24.07.2012 Posts: 63
      I will give some comments, i'm playing the $3.50 HU-SNG's at this moment. I read the things down, that i would do in that kind of situations.

      #1

      - Why are you opening to 3BB's and not 2BB's? I won't cbet with this hand, because you don't have much showdown value.

      #2

      - Fold this hand pre-flop.

      #3

      This is a flop to cbet, you got two overcards, and an backdoor straightdraw.

      #4

      If you didn't shove very much, it would be fine.

      #5 and #6

      What is a wide range for you? I will fold this with not a good read, when he is spewing you can call.

      #7

      Shove here is fine, then he must pay for his draws.

      [B]#8[/b]

      Calling his 3bet pre-flop is fine, and go for your flushdraw on the flop.

      #9

      This is fine, and fold that kind of flops.

      I hope you have something learned from my comments.
    • Avataren
      Avataren
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.04.2010 Posts: 1,621
      Originally posted by bjela
      Hey, good luck with HUSNGs.

      Yeah, 1k$ in a month playing 7$ turbos will be hard. But 15s are just a bit tougher than 7s, and 30s are still beatable by a healthy margin. And by that I mean closer to 10% ROI, not 5%.

      Just make sure you're not overdoing it by two-tabling, I think 1-tabling is better at the beginning.

      Oh, and your English is fine ;)
      ^ this
    • bjela
      bjela
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2010 Posts: 1,012
      It's been a bit since I've played the turbos, but here goes:

      1) cbet flop 60, maybe even 50, turn is standard ck/back, when he checks the river his range is super capped, so I'm firing a big bullet, 180 looks about right. I barrel anything higher than a 6 on the turn.

      2) Definitely either ck/raise (I'd do that) or lead turn. You can't let his overcards hit.

      3) I might cbet it anyway, you have two overcards, gutshot and a backdoor flush draw. So a lot of equity, but no real showdown value. Plus, you'll be able to barrel a lot of turns.

      4) 13bb deep, standard for QT is minraise and call a 3bet jam. But openjamming is +EV, too. When it comes to endgame, you really really can't focus on results of a single hand.

      5 and 6) If he's been 3betting a lot, you can limp both of these. If he didn't, minraise is ok, and fold to 3bj is also good.

      7) Definitely don't just call, but 3betting to 540-580 might be better than just jamming. Jam is also not bad, I guess.

      8) Again, if someone is 3betting a lot, you can/should add limping hands, and all of these examples are perfect hands for that. You're just not deep enough to call this 3b (I'd flat it 25bb deep, maybe even a bit shallower). Flop sucks, I don't think I could find a fold tbh, I'd probably just jam it in and hope for the best...

      9) Standard. As for other flops, it depends if you have any reads on how he plays after. Does he barrel turns with air or not. You have position, and you can call 1 street (especially with backdoor flushdraw, but even without it), and re-evaluate turn.

      ------------

      This all is my opinion, and definitely doesn't need to be right (although I'm pretty confident in all of my answers). Also, I'm pretty tired after a long day of poker+work, so I might have overlooked some things.

      In HUSNGs it often comes down to aggression, as pretty often nobody has anything, and the one being aggro wins the pot :D
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      Originally posted by Statistieken
      #1
      - Why are you opening to 3BB's and not 2BB's? I won't cbet with this hand, because you don't have much showdown value.
      I saw this sizing on vids:
      • 40bb-75bb to 3x
      • 25bb-40bb to 2.5x
      • below 25bb to 2x

      Vids are from 2010 and maybe nowadays min-rasing is better.
      I cbet because I have no SD EQ and cant win the pot - so I guess my thinking is bad here.


      Originally posted by Statistieken
      #5 and #6
      What is a wide range for you? I will fold this with not a good read, when he is spewing you can call.
      V was 3betting a lot - I mean after 25-30 hands he was 3betting 80% of the time. Yeah, I know that sample is too small but shows that V was attacking my btn-opens.


      [quote]Originally posted by Statistieken
      [B]#8[/b]
      Calling his 3bet pre-flop is fine, and go for your flushdraw on the flop.
      [/quote]You mean shoving? He bets 300 and has 300 left so calling is not an option, right?


      Originally posted by Statistieken
      #9
      This is fine, and fold that kind of flops.

      Statistieken, bjela thanks very much for comments :)
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      Still loosing but I feel that my game is improving - there is much less spots that I don't know what to do - today's loosing stretch was 9 in a row, but mostly coolers or bad beats, but for now I don't care ;)
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      I found a good thread on 2+2 about BRM in HUSNG (by JSpazz). After doing simple transformations I've got this (using 1/2 Kelly):

      BR = 2 * BI / ROI


      Next thing - montly cashout. Really simple idea - treats cashout like an additional rake. So for example when I'm going to play 1'000 SNG in a month on $15 then I'll be wagering a total of 1'000 * $15 = $15'000 and $1'000 is ~6.67% additional 'rake'. What bankroll do i need to play $15? (heh) It depends:
      • ROI 5% - 1'000 SNG is too small monthly volume to cashout $1'000
      • ROI 7% - true ROI is 0.33%, requires BK ~$9'100!
      • ROI 8% - true ROI is 1.33% requires BK ~$2'300
      • ROI 9% - true ROI is 2.33% requires BK ~$1'300
      • ROI 10% - true ROI is 3.33% requires BK ~$900


      Ouch... I don't have that bankroll so... put some more volume! Let's say 1'500 SNG in a month on $15, then $1000 is 4.4% of my total wagering:
      • ROI 5% - true ROI is 0.60%, requires BK ~$5'000!
      • ROI 6% - true ROI is 1.60%, requires BK ~$1'900
      • ROI 7% - true ROI is 2.60% requires BK ~$1'200
      • ROI 8% - true ROI is 3.60% requires BK ~$850
      • ROI 9% - true ROI is 4.60% requires BK ~$650
      • ROI 10% - true ROI is 5.60% requires BK ~$540


      Originally posted by bjela
      Yeah, 1k$ in a month playing 7$ turbos will be hard. But 15s are just a bit tougher than 7s, and 30s are still beatable by a healthy margin. And by that I mean closer to 10% ROI, not 5%.
      So 8% seems real, but 1'500 SNG 1-tabling doesn't. For 6-day week it's ~63 SNG per day (~10hours). For 7-day week it's ~54 SNG per day (~9hours). But for one-two weeks I will stick it to this:

      Originally posted by bjela
      Just make sure you're not overdoing it by two-tabling, I think 1-tabling is better at the beginning.
      But after 2 weeks I have to add one more table - these $1000 it's not money for parties but to pay for my mortgage, foods, bills - I really need them.


      Ok, on monday I'll reload my bankroll to $700-$750. This is too small for even 8% ROI but... this is not a full Kelly but 1/2 - it's less aggresive, so I think it will be ok :)
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      Let's get started. I've got 50 BI on $15 turbos:



      Goals for September
      • Play at least 750 HUSNGs
      • Go to the gym at least three per week
      • Watch at least two vids per week
    • slimy3
      slimy3
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.07.2008 Posts: 2,444
      One question - when eff. stakcs are 25bb deep it's the deepness like in hyper turbo games, so can I use strategy for hyper-turbos in turbos (when 25bb deep)?
    • bjela
      bjela
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.06.2010 Posts: 1,012
      Yes, you can.

      Obviously, what will be different from starting a hyper HUSNG is that you're not readless when you get to 25bbs, you should already know your villain pretty well by then.
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