[NL20-NL50] sh 20nl QQ coldcall 3b uninvolved

    • Verum
      Verum
      Black
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 1,309
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.20(BB) Replayer
      SB ($22.13)
      BB ($20)
      UTG ($29.70)
      UTG+1 ($55.80)
      CO ($32.14)
      Hero ($20)

      Dealt to Hero Q:heart: Q:spade:

      UTG raises to $0.60, UTG+1 raises to $1.80, fold, Hero calls $1.80, fold, fold, UTG calls $1.20

      FLOP ($5.70) 8:club: 5:spade: 6:heart:

      UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $3.60, Hero calls $3.60, UTG folds

      TURN ($12.90) 8:club: 5:spade: 6:heart: 7:club:

      UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $4

      UTG is a 11/9 over 200 hands, villain is a 63/28 fish(limps, strange bet sizes), with his first 3bet after 40 hands.

      Pre:
      I did not want t play for stacks VS UTG, and wasn't sure about Villains 3betting range either.

      Flop:
      if I knew about his 3betting range I might raise this...but this way I prefer a call to give him a shot at potentially spewing...

      Turn:
      I want him to bluff or not get away from a one pair hand...sets up river shove little under half pot
  • 7 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Verum,

      Preflop: Why not just 4bet it for value if you say he is a fish and aggressive?
      Flop: How many hands do you even have beat whilst he CBs into multiway pot?

      As played
      Turn: How many worse hands do you even see calling you here? Bluff, huh? Why would he bluff here? He could CB and gain the same fold equity, again asking how many hands do you have beat whilst now 99 also has you beat. :P Not to talk about a lot of 2pair combos/straights/sets.

      Best Regards.
    • Verum
      Verum
      Black
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 1,309
      I would have 4bet if UTG would have more than 5% UTG open...I did not want to 4b/f vs him, 40% of the time he will just jam over my 4b and I have to fold.

      Flop:
      I thought that he was aggro enough to bet high cards.

      Turn:
      you are right, I should check back
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Verum
      I would have 4bet if UTG would have more than 5% UTG open...I did not want to 4b/f vs him, 40% of the time he will just jam over my 4b and I have to fold.

      Flop:
      I thought that he was aggro enough to bet high cards.

      Turn:
      you are right, I should check back
      So your plan was to donate the money into the pot and then fold when UTG goes into 5betting? :) Don't you think that vs a nit you might even want to fold it just directly to save the money?
    • Verum
      Verum
      Black
      Joined: 07.03.2007 Posts: 1,309
      I did not want to 4bet...so I couldn't get 5bet...I don't really see what you are trying to say
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Verum
      I did not want to 4bet...so I couldn't get 5bet...I don't really see what you are trying to say
      Well, I am trying to get to the part where UTG plays 11/9, what do you think of his range? :P
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Why not just 4Bet and get it in vs the fish if he is really really bad? I would expect the UTG raiser to go broke in that spot with KK+ only (and in that 5% UTG openraise range there still are plenty of hands that he will just fold)

      Though I assume that even the fish should notice that our line is pretty strong + it is his first 3Bet from MP vs a tight UTG range. And it seems that he prefers passive over aggressive play preflop. Thus, unless we have a reason to believe that he is indeed extremely bad (i.e. we have seen a crazy hand on showdown that he played or smthn) the hand would indeed be better left folded. And from the looks of it, I am leaning towards thinking that we don't have that kind of information that would justify a 4Bet.

      Anyway, the UTG raiser's go-broke range after we call in that spot is much wider than it would be if we 4Betted, in my opinion, merely because we are pretty much expected to 4Bet KK and AA here instead of just calling. Thus the openraiser can still choose to get it in with AK and QQ, because our hand looks like AK/JJ, QQ at best. It also makes our hand somewhat easy to read postflop, if UTG just decides to call.
      Therefore I'd say that folding>4Betting>ColdCalling is the hierarchy in which our potential options lie.

      Does my thought process make sense?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Any specific question? The thought can be analyzed easily just reading the evaluation of mine and compare it. :) The questions may even answer the part which is actually a correct line.