live cash game ruling?

    • gxtwo
      Joined: 15.12.2010 Posts: 1,173
      Don't know if this is the correct place to post, so appologies if it isn't :)

      Playing a live NL cash game, there was a super deep, crazy aggressive player at the table who was raising every man and their dog.

      Heads up on the flop, me vs him

      I flop top 2 with AKo,I bet, he raises, and I go all in, he calls and I table my hand while he keeps his face down, before the turn is dealt I ask him "do you have a pair?" He replies "no", turn is dealt. I ask him "are you on a draw?" He again replies "no". Then the river is a blank.

      I ask him to show me his hand ( to see what kind of range this crazy player is raising/stacking with). He throws his hand over the line (dealer hasn't mucked it yet) and I ask the dealer to show me his hand. Dealer says he has the right to muck his hand. I insist I have the option to see as it was an all-in pot that has went to showdown.

      Dealer says no and mucks the hand, 3 other players at the table agreed with me, probably hoping for the free info haha :D

      The only reason I want to see was because of the way the guy was playing, crazy agroo and erratic. He was super deep and had everyone at the table covered. If it was standard play I wouldn't care less, give me dem chips yo!

      What's your views on this?
  • 16 replies
    • FaTDoGBG
      Joined: 09.03.2009 Posts: 139
      I will agree with the dealer, he called your All in but he wasn't All in, so he can muck his hand if it is not the winning one.
    • Yoshimitsu77
      Joined: 18.09.2010 Posts: 337
      im pretty sure you should be allowed to see his hand, however its apparently bad etiquette to do so.
    • yankomania
      Joined: 07.10.2010 Posts: 123
      As I heard at casino live games you are allowed to muck losing hand and don't show it even it was all-in, what isn't available at online poker.

      Maybe I'm wrong. :f_confused:

      Best of luck at the tables,

      yankomania :f_biggrin:
    • Deliveranced
      Joined: 15.06.2012 Posts: 222
      you have the right to see his hand, however it is indeed bad ethics. that dealer sucks major balls
    • Kyyberi
      Joined: 09.07.2010 Posts: 10,467
      I have seen it a lot at casino cash games, that all-in hands don't need to be showed. After the river normal showdown rules apply, but in that hand you went all-in so at showdown you have to show first. And he can muck.

      There isn't any hard and strict rules, different casinos have different rules. And cash games are different from tournaments.

      But in every place I have played, if you insist on seeing his hand the dealer should show it. But it's concidered bad sportsmanship.
    • JonikoP
      Joined: 15.05.2010 Posts: 600
      His hand wouldn't need to be shown where I play.
    • circoflax
      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      Originally posted by Deliveranced
      you have the right to see his hand, however it is indeed bad ethics. that dealer sucks major balls
      What is the rule that states this? I mean where I play not only they would not allow me to see his hand, but everbody would probably tell me to fuck off too for insisting. Especially becase HE called the all in, but in cash games I have never seen a dealer make someone show his hand if that player does not want to.

      Sometimes however you don't care about sportsmanship if it's against some kind of retard, so next time I would like to invoke that rule.
    • Maloco87
      Joined: 30.01.2011 Posts: 514
      he can just muck his losing hand as most people do if he had put you all in and you call you can wait for him to turn his hand round before showing yours as he was the last agressor in the hand which is why he just mucked his hand vs you as you made the last agressive action
    • ThatGuyMatt
      Joined: 03.12.2010 Posts: 3,748
      If the hand reach's showdown you should be able to request to see his hand. One time is ok, but if you do it more it becomes a Poker Etiquette Issue.

      This is also why you're allowed to view a players had when playing Online Poker. Yes, you can muck, but as most of us know you can view hand history and see their hand even if mucked, because its the rules.

      Although the casino's themselves generally create their own rules, next time you visit ask for a print out of their rules and see where it says about showing hands.

      Also moving to Beginners Questions.
    • gxtwo
      Joined: 15.12.2010 Posts: 1,173
      I understand there would be a case for etiquette if there was not a strong reason for me to ask.

      Like i said, the guy was crazy agroo and just want to see how spewy he really was.

      I may have used the word "insisted" wrong here. I would say i strongly insisted or argued to see them. it was more like the dealer saying "no", then me saying "what? im sure i have the right?" then just left it at that.

      then a few other players also commented to the dealer and each other saying that i did.

      thanks everyone for there comments. seems like it is a rule. but not a strongly enforced one. and also one that is different from house to house.
    • doctorkgb
      Joined: 01.04.2009 Posts: 1,263
      In CG he is can muck, in tourneys he must show you. Idea behind is that you don't chip dump in tournaments
    • faronel
      Joined: 13.07.2011 Posts: 1,186
      This is interesting.

      I have played some cash games over the period of few years at a local casino in Estonia, and dealer told everytime that a player calling all-in has the right to muck his hand, in case he/she doesn't want to show the lost hand.

      Yet, I opened casino poker club rules and there is no regulation concerning mucking the losing hand by a player who called all-in.

      On the other side, dealers are ruthless to those who want to muck their hands when they were the ones who went all-in, were called down and were busted. The thrown hand into the card pile is instantly flipped over for everyone's eye to catch. :f_biggrin:
    • circoflax
      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      Well I have never been able to convince a dealer to show me a hand if that guy wants to muck. That is in cash games only. No matter if he went all in or called the all in. They just don't do it here in my town.
    • Fagin
      Joined: 06.05.2008 Posts: 544
      AFAIK in any game of poker if a player calls another players bet they have paid to see his cards. The player calling the bet does not have to show their hand in a cash game (unless they can beat the other players already tabled hand), but cannot win the pot unless they show.

      I have seen this rule enforced at a number of tables in different casinos and at the cash tables at major tournaments.
    • nefarious26
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 413
      you said the guy was playing crazy and his rage was super wide so why the fuck would you need to see his hand when he doubles you up, just a very bad rub down if i was him i would have punched the shit out of you
    • Pakichu777
      Joined: 13.06.2011 Posts: 787
      He called. So he doesn't have to show his hand. You have to show first and then he can muck.

      You can request to see his hand in case you would suspect collusion, but that doesn't seem to be in order here.
      Plus it's pretty bad etiquette to ask to see a losing player's hand. Especially more then once after the dealer said no :) . Please don't do it, it upsets the fishies.