Hyper SNGs running bad...

    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      Wassup people,

      So, lately ive been playing these hyper sng in pokerstars, and lately ive been getting sick beats, losing 65/35 and some 70/30; i know about variance and that stuff, but what should i do when im constantly losing ? keep playing and hope that everything evens out, or stop playing?

      I think my EV line is below because I get to lose those 65/35 and 70/30 2 or hands before i am very shortstack and then continue to lose w rags because i am just 1-2 blinds from being eliminated:

  • 25 replies
    • daun666
      daun666
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 540
      I guess those are 1.5$?

      First its not a samplesize.
      Second you are above ev.
      Third this graph is just standart variance, if you think this is variance you cant hande than just stop playing, because you will experience much bigger swings, and running bad for much bigger sample.
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      Originally posted by omegapirate
      ; i know about variance and that stuff, but what should i do when im constantly losing ? keep playing and hope that everything evens out, or stop playing?
      ]
      firstly, by the look of the graph, you are actually slighlty ahead of your ev. so not sure how you can claim to be running bad. by the look of it, 'playing bad'may describe it better. of course 131 games means NOTHING in terms of your win rate (but if you truely understood variance, you would know this)

      if you were really consistently losing 65/35 and 70/30 hands your ev line would be signficantly above your winnings line.

      of the two options you gave (keep playing or quit), im going to with option number 3 which is 'study and learn the game and get better'. looks like you are running -10-20% roi which at the low stakes is pretty horrible. good news is that you are in the right place to learn.

      I am also going to add option number 4 (to be done in comination with option number 3). STOP PLAYING HYPEr TUrBOS until you know what you are doing.
    • ragney
      ragney
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.08.2010 Posts: 2,417
      Originally posted by daun666
      I guess those are 1.5$?

      First its not a samplesize.
      Second you are above ev.
      Third this graph is just standart variance, if you think this is variance you cant hande than just stop playing, because you will experience much bigger swings, and running bad for much bigger sample.
      +1

      I'm running 31BI below EV ($465) this month myself, really frustrating but nothing I/we can do. I'm just pissed when I play my B-game due the downswing which I hate the most. We're all human but keep your ego minimum during swings and it saves you alot of money.

      Don't want to mention how much money I spewed to tilt... :f_frown:
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      Hey omegapirate

      I moved your thread to the SnG forum.

      Lewis.
    • Castle93
      Castle93
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,452
      I used to play 6max hypers

      2 things I'll say is
      1: EV for hypers isn't that accurate tbh like you ve mentioned 1 reason, so I wouldn't pay much attention to it tbh
      2: Your sample size is basically a session or 2, it's nothing I'd just keep paying and look at at the very very minimum a 1k sample before you have any ideas

      Alex :)
    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      Thanks people for answering, last week i have been grinding about 50-60 hypers /day, and of course i have been studying, comparing and reviewing my hands and i always get sucked out in main parts of the hypers, that is that people suckout when is the time to double or bust. For the people that say that i a running good, I leave you with my graph and the hh in a sng ccritical point when they suckout.

      Since last 200 games or so my game has changed a lot, now i open a little bit wider and tighter in some spots and have read/view all articles and videos here in pokerstrategy about hypers, sng and ICM.

      First the graph:



      Now the hands:



      PokerStars - $1.40+$0.10|40/80 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 3 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 1,665.00
      Hero (BTN): 246.00
      SB: 1,089.00

      BB posts ante 8.00, Hero posts ante 8.00, SB posts ante 8.00, SB posts SB 40.00, BB posts BB 80.00

      Pre Flop: (pot: 144.00) Hero has A:spade: K:club:

      Hero raises to 238.00 and is all-in, SB calls 198.00, BB calls 158.00

      Flop: (738.00, 3 players) 5:spade: 6:diamond: 7:diamond:
      SB checks, BB checks

      Turn: (738.00, 3 players) 3:club:
      SB checks, BB bets 80.00, fold

      River: (738.00, 2 players) K:spade:

      BB shows 2:club: 4:club: (Straight, Seven High) (Pre 38%, Flop 47%, Turn 97%)
      Hero shows A:spade: K:club: (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 62%, Flop 53%, Turn 3%)
      BB wins 738.00




      PokerStars - $1.40+$0.10|40/80 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: 631.00
      Hero (CO): 433.00
      BTN: 528.00
      SB: 738.00
      BB: 670.00

      UTG posts ante 8.00, Hero posts ante 8.00, BTN posts ante 8.00, SB posts ante 8.00, BB posts ante 8.00, SB posts SB 40.00, BB posts BB 80.00

      Pre Flop: (pot: 160.00) Hero has 9:club: 9:diamond:

      fold, Hero raises to 425.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, BB calls 345.00

      Flop: (930.00, 2 players) 6:heart: 3:heart: J:spade:

      Turn: (930.00, 2 players) A:diamond:

      River: (930.00, 2 players) 8:club:

      BB shows 8:spade: 8:heart: (Three of a Kind, Eights) (Pre 19%, Flop 13%, Turn 5%)
      Hero shows 9:club: 9:diamond: (One Pair, Nines) (Pre 81%, Flop 87%, Turn 95%)
      BB wins 930.00




      PokerStars - $1.40+$0.10|60/120 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 1,363.00
      UTG: 1,185.00
      BTN: 182.00
      Hero (SB): 270.00

      BB posts ante 12.00, UTG posts ante 12.00, BTN posts ante 12.00, Hero posts ante 12.00, Hero posts SB 60.00, BB posts BB 120.00

      Pre Flop: (pot: 228.00) Hero has 2:heart: 2:club:

      fold, fold, Hero raises to 258.00 and is all-in, BB calls 138.00

      Flop: (564.00, 2 players) 9:spade: Q:heart: 7:diamond:

      Turn: (564.00, 2 players) J:diamond:

      River: (564.00, 2 players) 5:spade:

      Hero shows 2:heart: 2:club: (One Pair, Twos) (Pre 46%, Flop 46%, Turn 5%)
      BB shows J:club: T:club: (One Pair, Jacks) (Pre 54%, Flop 54%, Turn 95%)
      BB wins 564.00




      PokerStars - $1.40+$0.10|20/40 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: 427.00
      CO: 234.00
      BTN: 744.00
      Hero (SB): 761.00
      BB: 834.00

      UTG posts ante 4.00, CO posts ante 4.00, BTN posts ante 4.00, Hero posts ante 4.00, BB posts ante 4.00, Hero posts SB 20.00, BB posts BB 40.00

      Pre Flop: (pot: 80.00) Hero has Q:spade: Q:club:

      fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 80.00, BB raises to 280.00, Hero raises to 757.00 and is all-in, BB calls 477.00

      Flop: (1534.00, 2 players) T:heart: 7:spade: K:club:

      Turn: (1534.00, 2 players) 2:diamond:

      River: (1534.00, 2 players) K:diamond:

      Hero shows Q:spade: Q:club: (Two Pair, Kings and Queens) (Pre 18%, Flop 10%, Turn 5%)
      BB shows A:spade: A:club: (Two Pair, Aces and Kings) (Pre 82%, Flop 90%, Turn 95%)
      BB wins 1,534.00




      PokerStars - $1.40+$0.10|15/30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      UTG: 494.00
      CO: 464.00
      BTN: 424.00
      SB: 1,124.00
      Hero (BB): 494.00

      UTG posts ante 3.00, CO posts ante 3.00, BTN posts ante 3.00, SB posts ante 3.00, Hero posts ante 3.00, SB posts SB 15.00, Hero posts BB 30.00

      Pre Flop: (pot: 60.00) Hero has 8:club: 8:heart:

      UTG calls 30.00, CO calls 30.00, BTN calls 30.00, SB calls 15.00, Hero raises to 240.00, fold, CO calls 210.00, BTN calls 210.00, fold

      Flop: (795.00, 3 players) Q:heart: K:diamond: J:spade:
      Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets 181.00 and is all-in, fold, fold

      BTN wins 795.00




      PokerStars - $1.40+$0.10|40/80 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 482.00
      Hero (UTG): 292.00
      CO: 462.00
      BTN: 1,177.00
      SB: 587.00

      BB posts ante 8.00, Hero posts ante 8.00, CO posts ante 8.00, BTN posts ante 8.00, SB posts ante 8.00, SB posts SB 40.00, BB posts BB 80.00

      Pre Flop: (pot: 160.00) Hero has A:heart: 7:heart:

      Hero raises to 284.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 204.00

      Flop: (648.00, 2 players) J:diamond: 9:spade: 3:heart:

      Turn: (648.00, 2 players) 3:diamond:

      River: (648.00, 2 players) J:spade:

      BB shows Q:spade: J:heart: (Full House, Jacks full of Threes) (Pre 42%, Flop 85%, Turn 93%)
      Hero shows A:heart: 7:heart: (Two Pair, Jacks and Threes) (Pre 58%, Flop 15%, Turn 7%)
      BB wins 648.00





      IN THIS hand the first raiser was weak and was raising trash thats why i made that huge 3bet

      PokerStars - $1.40+$0.10|30/60 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      BB: 990.00
      UTG: 76.00
      Hero (MP): 453.00
      CO: 415.00
      BTN: 606.00
      SB: 460.00

      BB posts ante 6.00, UTG posts ante 6.00, Hero posts ante 6.00, CO posts ante 6.00, BTN posts ante 6.00, SB posts ante 6.00, SB posts SB 30.00, BB posts BB 60.00

      Pre Flop: (pot: 126.00) Hero has K:heart: Q:diamond:

      UTG raises to 70.00 and is all-in, Hero raises to 447.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, SB raises to 454.00 and is all-in, fold

      Flop: (1060.00, 3 players) 4:club: J:spade: 7:club:

      Turn: (1060.00, 3 players) 5:diamond:

      River: (1060.00, 3 players) Q:heart:

      SB shows 5:club: 5:heart: (Three of a Kind, Fives) (Pre 31%, Flop 40%, Turn 81%)
      Hero shows K:heart: Q:diamond: (One Pair, Queens) (Pre 40%, Flop 24%, Turn 0%)
      UTG shows 8:club: T:spade: (High Card, Queen) (Pre 30%, Flop 36%, Turn 19%)
      SB wins 1,060.00





      I know they are 60/40 and sh*t, but what do you think i should do:

      1) Just keep grinding and hope that things go my way OR
      2) Change to other form of poker?

      BTW, most hands (about 80-90%) are + in ICM when i make my shove, but somehow it just doesnt materialize in green $$$

      Thanks for your response!
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      hand 3 is a 50/50 race
      hand 4 you are crushed
      hand 5 is a 50/50 race
      hand 6 you are slightly ahead
      hand 7 is 50/50 race

      sorry, your graph clearly shows that your ev (if its calcualtirng correctly) is about the same as your actual profit/loss.

      you are not running bad. again, I really recommend you get away from the hypers until you improve your game.
    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      Originally posted by evertonroar
      hand 3 is a 50/50 race
      hand 4 you are crushed
      hand 5 is a 50/50 race
      hand 6 you are slightly ahead
      hand 7 is 50/50 race

      sorry, your graph clearly shows that your ev (if its calcualtirng correctly) is about the same as your actual profit/loss.

      you are not running bad. again, I really recommend you get away from the hypers until you improve your game.
      I know they are 50/50 and w/e,

      What would you recommend me to do in my situation?
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      I really recommend you get away from the hypers until you improve your game.

      Looking at your graph, you have run bad for the last 40 games but ran really well the previous 90 odd. but overall your ev line is going down which should be your major concern. I dont think there is anything wrong with most of the moves you made on the hands that you provided, but the resutls are really just standard variance. When you were running well, you would have been winning these hands and you would have been the one with AA.

      Hand 5 - you raise half your stack with a medium pair and then fold to a shove on the turn getting better than 4:1 on the call. you should just iso shove here preflop imo.

      Hand 7 - you 3-bet push kqo (farily week hand) for 8bb against an utg raiser. Unless you had some read that utg raises light, this is a clear fold imo.

      If you really want to play the hypers then you need to learn the push fold really well.
    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      I am going to make a little video of me playing hyper sngs so you can see that pokerstars is full of bullsh*t and bad beats.

      I am going to use the charts and articles in: (If you cant see the articles, i leave the images after their link)

      http://es.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/sng/2117/1/

      Image:


      http://es.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/sng/2118/1/

      Image:


      The video will be ready to be posted between 1-2 hours since this post was made.
    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      Video is ready, couldnt upload it to youtube because of video length, so i uploaded to one of my sites, you can see the video at: http://www.theprofitroad.com/pokerstrategyvideo.html

      Its only the embedd video, so there are no strange virus/malware or w/e.

      All your feedback is appreciated!
    • Barin22
      Barin22
      Platinum
      Joined: 16.02.2008 Posts: 196
      Every hand is totally standard exept 5 where u should shove preflop. Instead of analyzing your bad beat hands you should focus on to not be so tight (based on your video). With this payout (65/35) and blind (antes from start) structure u should be really agressive, most people on this limit are not calling wide enough and if they do just make notes.

      here is my graph from 1,5 USD 6max hypers:

      http://i.imgur.com/bc5sf.jpg
    • TurnitAce
      TurnitAce
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2011 Posts: 315
      Hi mate, i'm no expert but you really need some improvements . (I know I do)
      I think you are not aggressive enough(HU check ATo with 10 BB left i think is a mistake )
      anyway, good luck
      also , I think you don't understand the Nash ranges etc, (not sure)
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      cant open the video. but i would say listen to the other guys.
    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      thanks for the feedback guys,

      Somehow I just figured out that if i multitable 6tables at a time (hyper 6max sng) I just get more profitable results, I will continue like this and come back after playing another 200 games. :D :D :D :s_cool: :s_cool: :s_cool: :f_cool: :f_cool:
    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      Originally posted by evertonroar
      cant open the video. but i would say listen to the other guys.
      You should download java or flash, the video uses a plugin called "flowplayer" from http://flowplayer.org/
    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      So in the last ~400 games i have make some huge changes in my way of playing and i also made a little video about me playing hypers (NOW without whining/cursing :D :D :D ;( ) and the graph:

      Any feedback, comment or sth for the like is appreciated

    • omegapirate
      omegapirate
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.10.2009 Posts: 61
      The link to the new video of 6max hyper sng: http://www.theprofitroad.com/pshypernew.html

      Any comment, opinion, thought, feedback is appreciated!
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      THIS is running bad in hyper turbos. Small sample I know, but these are satellites with 500 chips. And look at the chip number below EV.

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