[NL2-NL10] NL4 2 marginal hands deep vs regs

    • Ketaa
      Ketaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 5
      These two hands were happening pretty much simultaneously right at the end of my session, and I became a bit uncomfortable playing these marginal hands >200bb deep vs these regs and ended up playing them super passively, so I'm kind of wondering how they *should* have been played.

      First hand, villain is a fishy reg, 3 bets a ton (9.6% over 430 hands), and seems to alternate between lag and calling station. He's 28/18/1.8 overall. I don't give his 3-bets much credit, but he is 3-betting a UTG raise here and I'm oop against him.

      I probably would have folded a river bet - he can be laggy, but I feel like there's no hand I would beat that is 3-barrelling this board. I still feel like I played this way too passively though, especially given the board texture and villain's 3-betting range - QQ+ (the hands I'm afraid of here) are only a very small part of it.

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.04(BB) Replayer
      SB ($3.48)
      BB ($1.62)
      Hero ($8.06)
      UTG+1 ($3.59)
      CO ($6.46)
      BTN ($17.75)

      Dealt to Hero Q:diamond: A:spade:

      Hero raises to $0.12, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.40, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.28

      FLOP ($0.86) Q:club: 5:club: 3:heart:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $0.61, Hero calls $0.61

      TURN ($2.08) Q:club: 5:club: 3:heart: 4:heart:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $1.48, Hero calls $1.48

      RIVER ($5.04) Q:club: 5:club: 3:heart: 4:heart: K:diamond:

      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Second hand, villain is from what I can tell a relatively solid winning reg. He's stealing pretty wide from the button (41%), so I feel like KJs is good enough to 3-bet out of the BB here. I get a decent flop, but I don't exactly love it, given that villain called my 3-bet pre. Villain isn't super aggro post-flop (1.8 AF), but does frequently bet when shown weakness. Again, I feel like I'd have to fold to a river bet though.

      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.04(BB) Replayer
      SB ($3.25)
      Hero ($14.40)
      UTG ($10.83)
      UTG+1 ($4.08)
      CO ($4.62)
      BTN ($10.27)

      Dealt to Hero J:spade: K:spade:

      fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.12, fold, Hero raises to $0.36, BTN calls $0.24

      FLOP ($0.74) K:diamond: 5:spade: 5:heart:

      Hero bets $0.45, BTN calls $0.45

      TURN ($1.64) K:diamond: 5:spade: 5:heart: 2:club:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $1, Hero calls $1

      RIVER ($3.64) K:diamond: 5:spade: 5:heart: 2:club: 3:heart:

      Hero checks, BTN checks
  • 5 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Ketaa,

      Welcome to the English NL Hand Evaluation Forum! Hopefully we will see more hands from you in the future. I hope that with our help you can improve your play and as well move up the limits. We will be waiting for the next hands and till that good luck on tables!

      Would be nice if you posted 1 hand per thread so we could concentrate on one hand mainly. :) Those are actually also the rules for hand evaluation forums.

      Hand #1
      Preflop: But he is 3betting vs UTG and the 3bet is kinda huge even, so I don't really see any reason to call here. It's not like he is 3betting vs late position. :) You have to understand the difference between it.

      As played
      Postflop: Not much to comment.

      Hand #2
      Preflop: Why do you 3bet here? Cause it's solid but solid for what? :)

      As played
      Postflop: Not much to comment, there ain't many hands which pay you anyways a lot more streets whilst he could float and try to take it down.

      Best Regards.
    • Ketaa
      Ketaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 5
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello Ketaa,

      Welcome to the English NL Hand Evaluation Forum! Hopefully we will see more hands from you in the future. I hope that with our help you can improve your play and as well move up the limits. We will be waiting for the next hands and till that good luck on tables!

      Would be nice if you posted 1 hand per thread so we could concentrate on one hand mainly. :) Those are actually also the rules for hand evaluation forums.

      Hand #1
      Preflop: But he is 3betting vs UTG and the 3bet is kinda huge even, so I don't really see any reason to call here. It's not like he is 3betting vs late position. :) You have to understand the difference between it.

      As played
      Postflop: Not much to comment.

      Hand #2
      Preflop: Why do you 3bet here? Cause it's solid but solid for what? :)

      As played
      Postflop: Not much to comment, there ain't many hands which pay you anyways a lot more streets whilst he could float and try to take it down.

      Best Regards.
      I'll keep that in mind and only post one hand per thread from now on.

      Re: hand #1 - Villain is 3-betting nearly 10% and while it certainly is true that a good player will tighten up their 3-betting range significantly vs a UTG raise, this player doesn't seem to be particularly positionally aware. He's shown up with garbage hands in spots like this before, and in this case it turned out to be A6s. The only hands that are crushing me are QQ+ and AK, which don't make up a huge part of his range here.

      Postflop for hand #1: I check-call two streets, which I feel is too passive, especially given all of the talk in the strategy articles about how bad it can be to check-call, and even moreso given villain's range and the board texture. Is it really the best option in this hand, or could I have played it better post-flop?

      Hand #2: I was calling villain a relatively solid player, not saying my hand was solid. Obviously KJs is marginal, but it should be good enough for a resteal against an opponent who is opening 41% from the button, no?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Is it really the best option in this hand, or could I have played it better post-flop?

      Like? :) How do you extract maximum value from him?

      I was calling villain a relatively solid player, not saying my hand was solid. Obviously KJs is marginal, but it should be good enough for a resteal against an opponent who is opening 41% from the button, no?

      Well, explain me how it's good? :) What's the point of the 3bet? For value, as bluff or what? You can't really 3bet cause the hand is solid. :D
    • Ketaa
      Ketaa
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.08.2012 Posts: 5
      Originally posted by veriz
      Is it really the best option in this hand, or could I have played it better post-flop?

      Like? :) How do you extract maximum value from him?
      That's what I'm asking. I suppose given his holdings I couldn't possibly have extracted more than I did, but there might have been hands in his range that I could have gotten more from. I'm just unsure of whether or not that potential reward is worth the risk of raising.


      I was calling villain a relatively solid player, not saying my hand was solid. Obviously KJs is marginal, but it should be good enough for a resteal against an opponent who is opening 41% from the button, no?

      Well, explain me how it's good? :) What's the point of the 3bet? For value, as bluff or what? You can't really 3bet cause the hand is solid. :D
      Again, I did not say that the hand was solid. I said that villain was solid, not the hand. What I did say was that KJs seems good enough to 3-bet against villain's very wide button stealing range. Is this true, or no? He'll be folding a lot and we're still not doing too bad against his calling range.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Is this true, or no? He'll be folding a lot and we're still not doing too bad against his calling range.

      And what do you think his calling range is going to look like if you say that you wont be doing that bad against it? Don't get me wrong or that I want to be harsh, I just want to make clear things. :) Cause this kind of play can easily be in long run wasting tons of money if you don't understand what's the purpose of the 3bet. Right now it's the case.