[NL2-NL10] QJs call 3Bet IP vs maniac

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1889203
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      SB: $13.07 - VPIP: 66, PFR: 43, 3B: 23, AF: 7,5, AFq: 37, cBetFlop: 60(5), cBetTurn: 100(1), Hands: 35
      BB: $11.64 - VPIP: 43, PFR: 22, 3B: 11, AF: 0,8, Hands: 63
      UTG: $10.00 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 16, 3B: 11, AF: 2,6, Hands: 161
      Hero (MP): $12.86 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 19, 3B: 5, AF: 4,7, Hands: 67888
      CO: $6.44 - VPIP: 10, PFR: 8, 3B: 6, AF: 0,0, Hands: 40
      BTN: $12.40 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 14, 3B: 13, AF: 4,0, Hands: 57

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with Q :club: J :club:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, SB raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.70

      Flop: ($2.10) 6 :heart: 9 :heart: 4 :diamond: (2 players)
      SB bets $1.40, Hero folds

      I don't know anything in particular about this villain and his playing tendencies, and keeping that in mind, does it ever make sense to call in this spot without a real plan postflop even despite the fact that we are a bit deep + the odds are good + our hand plays well + villain's range seems to be very wide?

      Seemed like a good spot to try out calling vs 3Bets and trying to gain some edge playing IP in 3Bet pots vs loose 3betters.
  • 8 replies
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      You should have a plan against a player like that on flop. If he's likely to cbet on any flop, you could sometimes even shove there; it's hard for him to call with air. Sometimes you can check/fold, as you did now.

      What about Post-flop? Calling this 3-bet wasn't that smart, because you can't be sure where you're going if or when you hit a pair. Even with flush you can't now for sure if you're holding the best hand, coz your opponent could be 3-betting you w Axs.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Well, why are you calling then against him if you don't have much planned against him nor know much about him. We have very little information so therefore calling isn't going to be the best idea either. If he is rather unknown and we assume is capable of 3betting loose then 1st try to 4bet him and take a look how he adjusts.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Since we can't really call without a plan/without knowing much about him and basically vs such guys we don't have a calling range in this spot anyway (since we 4Bet everything for either value/bluff), are we supposed to develop a plan based on what we know about his game regarding other spots/situations? I.e., if we knew that he likes to multibarrel as a bluff very often, could we call preflop vs the 3Bet and expect him to spew away money vs our TP/even middle pair? Or if we knew that he likes to cBet the flop and give up on the turn in regular pots often, could we assume that it is likely the case in 3B pots as well, and thus we can call in order to float very often?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Since we can't really call without a plan/without knowing much about him and basically vs such guys we don't have a calling range in this spot anyway (since we 4Bet everything for either value/bluff), are we supposed to develop a plan based on what we know about his game regarding other spots/situations? I.e., if we knew that he likes to multibarrel as a bluff very often, could we call preflop vs the 3Bet and expect him to spew away money vs our TP/even middle pair? Or if we knew that he likes to cBet the flop and give up on the turn in regular pots often, could we assume that it is likely the case in 3B pots as well, and thus we can call in order to float very often?
      Why can't we develop a plan, he is unknown so we can practically base on the reads we had so far and play vs him as vs unknown guy. Vs unknown guy I wouldn't recommend calling with QJs hands cause you are very often dominated by better hands, nor know how much implied odds you have postflop for your draws which may also cost a lot.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      1) I think we can assume that there is a very high possibility that villain has a very loose 3betting range. Can we not somehow disregard the fear of being dominated postflop? Or can it still be variance/can he still have certain preferences in hand selection when 3Betting so, that we actually don't dominate many Qx or Jx hands even with his range being on the wider side (e.g. he may call with QT or JT type of hands and 3Bet KQ, Axs, small PPs and smthn like that?)

      2) Could possible plans vs light 3Betters look like this:
      If we knew that he likes to multibarrel as a bluff very often, could we call preflop vs the 3Bet and expect him to spew away money vs our TP/even middle pair? Or if we knew that he likes to cBet the flop and give up on the turn in regular pots often, could we assume that it is likely the case in 3B pots as well, and thus we can call in order to float very often?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      1) I think we can assume that there is a very high possibility that villain has a very loose 3betting range. Can we not somehow disregard the fear of being dominated postflop? Or can it still be variance/can he still have certain preferences in hand selection when 3Betting so, that we actually don't dominate many Qx or Jx hands even with his range being on the wider side (e.g. he may call with QT or JT type of hands and 3Bet KQ, Axs, small PPs and smthn like that?)

      Well, you still have to have a plan for postflop and not just hope to Call and see if you hit something. Especially those guys ain't able to fold must postflop so it might be even difficult to play vs them in a 3bet pot. Which means we rather want to call with those hands which also dominate rather them cause once we hit we can at least be sure that we ahead with our TP more often.

      2) Could possible plans vs light 3Betters look like this:
      If we knew that he likes to multibarrel as a bluff very often, could we call preflop vs the 3Bet and expect him to spew away money vs our TP/even middle pair? Or if we knew that he likes to cBet the flop and give up on the turn in regular pots often, could we assume that it is likely the case in 3B pots as well, and thus we can call in order to float very often?

      But you can't be sure if you even dominate huge part of his range which is 3betting. :) Nor of course such a guy wont give up many of his hands postflop. Nor floating vs him doesn't make sense unless we have equity in our hand whilst he has been CBetting decent amount so far.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      2) Could possible plans vs light 3Betters look like this: If we knew that he likes to multibarrel as a bluff very often, could we call preflop vs the 3Bet and expect him to spew away money vs our TP/even middle pair? Or if we knew that he likes to cBet the flop and give up on the turn in regular pots often, could we assume that it is likely the case in 3B pots as well, and thus we can call in order to float very often?

      But you can't be sure if you even dominate huge part of his range which is 3betting. Nor of course such a guy wont give up many of his hands postflop. Nor floating vs him doesn't make sense unless we have equity in our hand whilst he has been CBetting decent amount so far.


      I suppose that KQs wouldn't be that much different?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      2) Could possible plans vs light 3Betters look like this: If we knew that he likes to multibarrel as a bluff very often, could we call preflop vs the 3Bet and expect him to spew away money vs our TP/even middle pair? Or if we knew that he likes to cBet the flop and give up on the turn in regular pots often, could we assume that it is likely the case in 3B pots as well, and thus we can call in order to float very often?

      But you can't be sure if you even dominate huge part of his range which is 3betting. Nor of course such a guy wont give up many of his hands postflop. Nor floating vs him doesn't make sense unless we have equity in our hand whilst he has been CBetting decent amount so far.


      I suppose that KQs wouldn't be that much different?
      KQ is less likely to be dominated, so there is still a difference. :)