[NL2-NL10] NL10: 34s good openraise + bad cBet?

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1889208
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (BTN): $10.69 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 19, 3B: 5, AF: 4,7, Hands: 67888
      SB: $4.70 - VPIP: 48, PFR: 13, 3B: 3, AF: 1,2, FoldTocBetFlop: 63(16), FoldTocBetTurn: 33(3), WTS: 23, W$SD: 56, Hands: 101
      BB: $13.55 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 14, 3B: 8, AF: 0,0, FoldBBtoSteal: 100(11), Hands: 129
      UTG: $10.19 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 12, 3B: 6, AF: 4,2, Hands: 213
      CO: $37.23 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 14, 3B: 8, AF: 1,6, Hands: 490

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 3 :diamond: 4 :diamond:
      2 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.60) K :diamond: 2 :heart: T :heart: (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, SB folds

      Given BB's tightness and the fact that SB can still fold to cBets postflop, what do you think about this openraise?

      Don't like the cBet though. At the time of play I thought that I have to fold out all his small stuff + maybe even PPs that are pretty much ahead of me if I want to be openraising this hand profitably preflop but I guess that it is just simply not true as our equity vs his preflop range is very small on this board anyway + we only have a backdoor FD + some backdoor SDs, not to mention the fact that this board hits a big part of villain's calling range. So the cBet might actually be terrible, lol.
  • 6 replies
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,343
      Why not to cbet there? Your hand doesn't have a lot of chances to improve, so bluffing is the only chance to grab the pot. You guys have so little hands played together, so it's possible that your opponent just didn't have anything while he was on big blind before.

      On this flop, you can even make Ax- hands and smaller PP's to fold, so I guess this was WP.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Well, if you are opening such hands then you should also consider CBetting with overall equity and backdoors. Instead if you are opening so loose then vs the loose guy should also preflop just min-raise it.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Well, we are not really in that great a spot on the flop:


      Board: K:diamond: 2:heart: T:heart:
             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    19.00%  18.57%   0.44% { 4d3d }
      MP3    81.00%  80.56%   0.44% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K6s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-A2o, K8o+, Q8o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o, 87o }


      + our backdoors are not of all that much help on this flop (we still often don't even hit our backdoors, when called). At least I don't like our potential:



      So, maybe I should have just folded preflop? Because I am not sure villain is THAT much of a fan of the fit/fold approach to poker. He seems to fold to cBets, but it may not be enough. Although our hand is not doing all that bad vs villain's range preflop:


             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    36.44%  35.67%   0.77% { 4d3d }
      MP3    63.56%  62.79%   0.77% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K6s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AQo-A2o, K8o+, Q8o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o, 87o }
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Nice analyze by the way. :) Well, this gives you a correct result that instead fold those hands preflop.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      1) Such hands may still be openraised vs loose guys, provided they have a very high foldTocBet stat, i.e., they are pretty much playing fit/fold, right? Only then we pretty much have to cBet on almost any board that is either dry or offers any sort of a backdoor and is not extremely wet, including even such a somewhat wet board as this one, right?

      2) I have learned that this hand is not to be openraised against a loose opponent (at least as long as he is not a complete nit postflop) and it is a very nice thing to discover, indeed! However, after once again playing around with Equilab, I actually discovered that 34s is not all that different equity wise from 45s, 56s, and even 67s or 78s vs such guys' calling ranges. And yet I have always thought that all of these hands are pretty awesome candidates for an openraise from the BTN even vs loose guys. Where do I draw the bottom line regarding my BU SC opening range vs loose guys?

      I mean:

      34s equity

             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    36.52%  35.76%   0.75% { 43s }
      MP3    63.48%  62.73%   0.75% { JJ-22, A2s+, K6s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, A2o+, K8o+, Q8o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o, 87o }


      It is a relatively minor difference preflop from

      78s equity

             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    40.32%  38.72%   1.60% { 87s }
      MP3    59.68%  58.07%   1.60% { JJ-22, A2s+, K6s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, A2o+, K8o+, Q8o+, J9o+, T9o, 98o, 87o }


      And there is literally no difference between these two hands on this very same flop texture equity wise. Yet still I wouldn't want to cBet either of these hands on this flop vs this guy. Does it mean that even 78s should be left folded with such an opponent in the blinds preflop? That sounds very nitty. Although I suppose that 78s allows us to valuebet a lot more pairs than 34s and maybe that's where the difference lies. (equity preflop = not the same as playability postflop, afterall?)
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Yes, it can be opened but though you should be opening once again just 2bb if you are opening so loose. And you can't equal 34s = 78s which is way different cause at least with 78 you could hit a decent pair which you could continue but once you hit a pair with 3 or 4 you wont really know where you stand with it.