[NL20-NL50] 63 Nl50

    • BruceLee89
      BruceLee89
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2009 Posts: 241
      On Game, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $47.25 (94.5 bb)
      BB: $53.49 (107 bb)
      MP: $58.66 (117.3 bb)
      CO: $77.02 (154 bb)
      BTN: $50.57 (101.1 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with 6 3
      3 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB calls $1

      Flop: ($3) 6 Q J (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.75, BB calls $1.75

      Turn: ($6.50) 3 (2 players)
      Hero bets $4.50, BB raises to $12, Hero calls $7.50

      River: ($30.50) A (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $38.24 and is all-in, Hero folds

      Results:
      $30.50 pot ($1.69 rake)
      Final Board: 6 Q J 3 A
      Hero mucked 6 3 and lost (-$15.25 net)
      BB mucked and won $28.81 ($13.56 net)


      In this case I try to steal him because he folds the 80% on my steals SB vs BB, on the flop I decide to cbet because he folds the 70%. Maybe I should fold his raise on the turn because he's a 15/12 but I think sometimes he can decide to try a move. In this situation should I call the river?
  • 10 replies
    • iambanker
      iambanker
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2011 Posts: 5,519
      Against this type of player I just give a flop often, I make profit on preflop play so no reason to try take every pot postflop :) I would definitely give up this board, because its so hard hitting his range, which consist mainly from brodways and higher SC.

      With implied odds maybe u have odds to call (i think its pretty close), but I dont mind to fold OTT. OTR I fold.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      I fold preflop... Unless you think he never adjusts, I see no reason to raise 100% of hands. And if I were to do so I probably raise it smaller, maybe to 2 or 2.5BB with my entire SB range. But even a nit will eventually adjust at NL50 in my opinion so you may not want to "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs" by overdoing your stealing, maybe keep it at 70-80%.

      Flop Cbet is questionable, I wouldn't mind c/f to be honest but betting with bottom pair seems ok too.

      Folding Turn seems nitty, but if he's a nit he is going to have QJ almost always.
      66 (1 combo)
      QJ (9 combos)
      QQ/JJ (1 or 2 combos?) - would usually 3bet this preflop
      4c5c (1 combo)

      question is how wide his turn raising range is. Does he raise the Turn with flush draws because he thinks its no longer profitable to call them again? I think nits in general don't bluff raise Turn. I also think he raises all his combodraws like KcTc on the Flop and the Turn did not bring any new draws (like a diamond). Perhaps he could have 4c5c which turned some open ender equity but that's about it.

      63 is almost the same as AA in this spot, biggest difference is that you now block 2 combos of set of 6s.

      I just think that such players don't have any sort of bluff/semibluff raising range on Turn so I fold... but i could be wrong, you didn't give too many details about his tendencies
    • BruceLee89
      BruceLee89
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2009 Posts: 241
      Originally posted by iambanker
      Against this type of player I just give a flop often, I make profit on preflop play so no reason to try take every pot postflop :) I would definitely give up this board, because its so hard hitting his range, which consist mainly from brodways and higher SC.

      With implied odds maybe u have odds to call (i think its pretty close), but I dont mind to fold OTT. OTR I fold.
      Yeah it's true but if he folds the 70% why not doing it? I'm still gaining ;)

      For the turn I think b/f is the best one but in game it's a little bit different.
    • BruceLee89
      BruceLee89
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.09.2009 Posts: 241
      Originally posted by mbml
      I fold preflop... Unless you think he never adjusts, I see no reason to raise 100% of hands. And if I were to do so I probably raise it smaller, maybe to 2 or 2.5BB with my entire SB range. But even a nit will eventually adjust at NL50 in my opinion so you may not want to "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs" by overdoing your stealing, maybe keep it at 70-80%.

      Flop Cbet is questionable, I wouldn't mind c/f to be honest but betting with bottom pair seems ok too.

      Folding Turn seems nitty, but if he's a nit he is going to have QJ almost always.
      66 (1 combo)
      QJ (9 combos)
      QQ/JJ (1 or 2 combos?) - would usually 3bet this preflop
      4c5c (1 combo)

      question is how wide his turn raising range is. Does he raise the Turn with flush draws because he thinks its no longer profitable to call them again? I think nits in general don't bluff raise Turn. I also think he raises all his combodraws like KcTc on the Flop and the Turn did not bring any new draws (like a diamond). Perhaps he could have 4c5c which turned some open ender equity but that's about it.

      63 is almost the same as AA in this spot, biggest difference is that you now block 2 combos of set of 6s.

      I just think that such players don't have any sort of bluff/semibluff raising range on Turn so I fold... but i could be wrong, you didn't give too many details about his tendencies
      About the preflop I thought about stealing just 2x or 2.5x but I think in this way his calling range is gonna became higher because I give him better odds and he's IP on me. My general idea is to close the hand on the PF.

      I didn't put his turn raise because it is 13% but only on 8 hands (it's explained by his big fold to cbet). On the river his cbet is 0 on 4 hands.

      QQ/JJ I'm sure he 3bets them PF.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      if he's a nit he won't really adjust his ranges based on your raise size too much so I won't be too concerned about that.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello BruceLee89,

      Preflop: Even if he folds this amount I still wouldn't steal any2 here. The main reason is postflop which you see yourself, wasted a lot money whilst could have saved all of it by just folding. That's why don't listen to those videos which say to steal any2 vs specific amount of fold to steal %, cause you basically make tons of mistakes postflop.

      As played
      Postflop: Check/Fold the flop, worst flop for us to CB vs his tight range, he will continue most of his range what called. The same applies for the turn, standard Bet/Fold and we are mainly hoping to get a call from him.

      Best Regards.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      How can we fold the turn?

      We really have to discount QJ. On this board I really can't see many oppo's just flat the flop with top two... He has to be really passive and we don't have that info.

      We als have to eliminate 66 from his range. Again, it's unlikely that he would flat 66 on this flop. Plus the fact that there is only 1 combo I think we can never give him credit for 66.

      Also the same thing about JJ and QQ. First of all they 3bet preflop most likely. If he should opt to flat something like JJ preflop then again, he is almost always raising the flop.

      On the turn he could have 33 -> Don't believe that such a guy floats the flop with 33 so again, we have to strongly discount pocket 33. At best we can give him 1 combo but already that is very unlikely.

      Other hands? Q6, J6. Same as above. Preflop fold and flop raise.
      At last we have something like J3 and Q3. I don't believe the guy calls this preflop... Allthough I think these hands are far more likely than JJ/QJ.

      This brings me to the conclusion where I would 3bet the turn and get it in. He can have a ton of draws/floats which he want to raise now cause he don't want to fold BvB. He can even turn something like TJ into a bluff or get crazy with AT.
      He just doesn't have to bluff a lot to make it profitable to go broke here.

      I think and hope you understand my thinking. If you think I am wrong, please make me clear what's wrong and why :)

      tnx
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      We really have to discount QJ. On this board I really can't see many oppo's just flat the flop with top two... He has to be really passive and we don't have that info.

      And how do you have the info that he can't do that? Why wouldn't a guy able to slowplay there that way, I would add at least 70% of his range there which could definitely play this way. The same applies for JJ/QQ cause such a nit wont even 3bet those hands for value.

      So what do you beat on the turn? You are only talking about "He can't have that and that" but actually he can have it and at the same time you are rather not talk about at all what you actually have beat.

      Though that's true that if we want to continue on the turn then we should just ship it.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      We really have to discount QJ. On this board I really can't see many oppo's just flat the flop with top two... He has to be really passive and we don't have that info.

      And how do you have the info that he can't do that? Why wouldn't a guy able to slowplay there that way, I would add at least 70% of his range there which could definitely play this way. The same applies for JJ/QQ cause such a nit wont even 3bet those hands for value.

      So what do you beat on the turn? You are only talking about "He can't have that and that" but actually he can have it and at the same time you are rather not talk about at all what you actually have beat.

      Though that's true that if we want to continue on the turn then we should just ship it.
      Well I agree that he CAN have it but we strongly have to discount combo's. While it is still BvB I think villain may raise us with some bluff or semi-bluff combo's too. I think that the combo's of valuehands are small enough to go broke here. Don't you also think that? Or am I wrong again? :P .
      I just can't make you change your mind he :D
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Originally posted by veriz
      We really have to discount QJ. On this board I really can't see many oppo's just flat the flop with top two... He has to be really passive and we don't have that info.

      And how do you have the info that he can't do that? Why wouldn't a guy able to slowplay there that way, I would add at least 70% of his range there which could definitely play this way. The same applies for JJ/QQ cause such a nit wont even 3bet those hands for value.

      So what do you beat on the turn? You are only talking about "He can't have that and that" but actually he can have it and at the same time you are rather not talk about at all what you actually have beat.

      Though that's true that if we want to continue on the turn then we should just ship it.
      Well I agree that he CAN have it but we strongly have to discount combo's. While it is still BvB I think villain may raise us with some bluff or semi-bluff combo's too. I think that the combo's of valuehands are small enough to go broke here. Don't you also think that? Or am I wrong again? :P .
      I just can't make you change your mind he :D
      Unless I know that the guy is capable of doing moves on us I am not really planning to go broke in those spots, especially when a guy is nitty = also rather passive postflop.