[NL2-NL10] NL10: KJs raise vs donkbet

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 1897869
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (BTN): $10.69 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 19, 3B: 5, AF: 4,7, Hands: 70491
      SB: $13.09 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 5,0, AFq: 53, Hands: 47
      BB: $10.00 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 1,0, Hands: 32
      CO: $7.55 - VPIP: 55, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 1,8, Hands: 20

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with K :club: J :club:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.60) 6 :spade: 3 :heart: 5 :club: (2 players)
      SB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.40, SB calls $1

      Turn: ($3.40) K :spade: (2 players)
      SB bets $2.00, Hero folds

      This is villain's first donkbet.

      Given the fact that villain can't represent all that much on this board I decided to go for a raise with my backdoors on given the dryness of the board, although some weak overpairs do sort of make sense and he maybe is not really folding them to just the raise on the flop.

      Once I hit my pair on the turn I have the intention of just checking behind for pot control, but since villain bets again I sort of am confused. I am not really all that sure it makes sense to call without any reads as this does not look like a line villain would take with a medium made hand like 88/99 or something like that. Went for the safest option and just folded.
  • 9 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      If you´re bluffing flop, you can´t really fold turn if you hit your tp hand. I would call him down. He should have there enough times air or some 54s type hands. Also he may always turn his medium pp-s into bluffs.

      best regards,
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I would have to have some funky read to assume that he is indeed choosing such a strange line as a bluff. May very well be a very strong hand that fears a check behind, thus a loss in value (because our perceived range may contain overpairs that are now denoted in value because of the overcard).

      May Veriz take a look? Maybe I'm wrong but I need double-proof.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      I would have to have some funky read to assume that he is indeed choosing such a strange line as a bluff. May very well be a very strong hand that fears a check behind, thus a loss in value (because our perceived range may contain overpairs that are now denoted in value because of the overcard).

      May Veriz take a look? Maybe I'm wrong but I need double-proof.
      K is always scare card also for you- I would not really put him on set or two pair but rather some 4x or 87 hands that would try to bluff me out. And again it comes to this question: if you´re bluffraising flop why would you fold turn if you hit your tp hand.
    • bmfbpi
      bmfbpi
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 590
      @OP, while he's not representing much, neither are you. Maybe some medium PP, but once the K hits the turn and he bets you need to call given the line you took. No point whatsoever in bluff-raising flop if you are going to fold on the turn when you hit
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Assuming we call, what is your plan for the river if a blank comes and villain bets big? If we call the turn assuming that he can still try to bluff us off a midpair that raises flop for value+protection, it's difficult to find a good reason to fold the river. Yet we still have to assume that villain is not really that great a player given his somewhat illogical line (which still can be a trap).

      I am growing more fond of calling the turn but in all honesty on the river I think we are very much in a guessing mode. Because we don't know if villain carries through his bluff all the way betting river as well. We can expect him to sometimes just check and give up and that's awesome, but really – what do you do if he bets and we don't know anything about him?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      You can still call the turn and reevaluate the river, nobody is even telling that we should call the river vs a shove or anything. More likely the guy ain't going to bluff the river whilst our play was pretty strong already there. Plus of course he may also donk even with weaker pairs/PPs/draws.

      Best Regards.
    • Anger86
      Anger86
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.08.2008 Posts: 511
      I also think If he had a set or 2pair he would go broke on the flop since your line looks strong enough to go broke there.

      I like the Flop raise if it's a semi-bluff, meaning, we have some pot odds too, not only Fold Equity. Now you turn your hand in a pure air it seems.

      I guess we are also planing to hit backdoor FD there.

      Q: Do we call if we hit a backdoor FD there? It would be around 2.5:1 pot odds with 3:1 left in the effective stacks. So, total odds like 5.5:1.

      If he has there some medium/low strength hands, then we don't have implied odds.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Anger86
      I also think If he had a set or 2pair he would go broke on the flop since your line looks strong enough to go broke there.

      I like the Flop raise if it's a semi-bluff, meaning, we have some pot odds too, not only Fold Equity. Now you turn your hand in a pure air it seems.

      I guess we are also planing to hit backdoor FD there.

      Q: Do we call if we hit a backdoor FD there? It would be around 2.5:1 pot odds with 3:1 left in the effective stacks. So, total odds like 5.5:1.

      If he has there some medium/low strength hands, then we don't have implied odds.
      We can't exclude sets from his range, he may also play them this way. Either we have the implied odds on the turn or not mainly depends how we see the opponent and how strong his hand looks like with his play, according to that we can base either Call or Fold.
    • Thorek
      Thorek
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.12.2007 Posts: 59,761
      It's fold preflop or call with plan of floating. Raise on that board doesn't make sense.