HELP, Problems with hand ranges

    • killacasey
      killacasey
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.07.2010 Posts: 9
      I just got back to playing online about a month ago, my bankroll has been dancing up and down and I'm having a VERY hard time putting people on ranges and hands, I don't know how to react to aggression alot of the time I know the main ranges like low pocket pairs, JJ+, suited connectors 1 gappers and Ax or any two face cards but when it comes down to actually putting the other person on a hand its difficult, what tools can I use to help get information or what methods will help me learn ??? Im desperate any help appreciated thx
  • 9 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,057
      My first recommendation would be the NL Beginner's course,

      I could suggest individual articles and videos, but in the NL course, you will progress through them in a logical manner

      Click the logo in my sig and get started

      If you have been primarily an SNG player, there is an extra layer to learn -- the push/fold stage and how judge which of the two actions to do based on stack sizes and position. For that download the ICM trainer and practice.

      Even if you primarily plan tournaments, the NL Beginner's course lays the foundation for the game, and is pretty much essential.

      good luck!
    • evertonroar
      evertonroar
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.06.2009 Posts: 737
      get a HUD.

      And if if you are playing SNGs just assume people are only calling your BTN/CO push with 15% of hands or any ace/any pair+kq if they have less than 7BB.
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      Use your knowledge of your opponent. His range is wider the looser he is. then when you come to make a tough decision go through the hand in your head and you can narrow ranges.

      Eg A TAG opens UTG in a FR game and the flop comes AQ2r, he cbets and you call, the turn is a 4 and he makes another big bet.

      You can narrow down his range based on his actions street by street. He is tight and opens UTG, this is a strong range automatically, when he cbets the flop he can have QQ, AA, AK, AJ, AQ and then some pairs like 77+ that he's trying to win the pot with. When he makes another big bet on the turn we can narrow his range down to pretty much only value hands like 2pair+, although 44 and 22 won't be in there because of his tight UTG opening range.

      Disclaimer: this was just an off-the-top-of-my-head scenario to use as an example :D
    • killacasey
      killacasey
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.07.2010 Posts: 9
      Sorry guys I havn't been specific, I have read and gone through many of the articles and videos, I understand if I get 3-bet from UTG tight player hes probrably holding a tight strong range, and if I'm called from the button his range is usually wider, I know about implied and pot odds, pot contro(way ahead/way behind), I also understand loose players generally have a looser range but what I'm getting at is that I'm a Nit. I don't know how to react to aggression after the flop and when I have the nuts I don't get max EV because I'm always worried of being sucked out on. I've tried getting the HM2 HUD free trial but my computer keeps telling me there are harmful files or something and wont let me download, is there any other HUD's out there with free trials ? It just seems like at the micro limits if I Isolate a limper and he calls, when I c-bet and he calls now what? can I automatically put him on top pair , a set or a pocket pair ? it seems to me micro players call with alot of draws but how can I specifically put them on these hands I don't want to 2nd barrel with air so I'm forced to give up if I dont hit the turn after my c-bets have failed.
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      hi killcasey,

      The best tools I can recommend are your eyes and a pen and paper - or notepad or similar. Watch the villains, do they limp/fold or limp/call? If they limp/call do they fold to a cbet? You may need to have a stronger isolating range if they limp/call and dont fold to cbets, play in position if you can - or move tables if you feel uncomfortable playing out of position and cbet less if you miss. Don't bluff these guys [mostly] and don't try to bet them off the hand, you wont.
      If they showdown, note how the hand played out and what the villains showed.
      Pick one player at the table and study them even when you aren't in a hand with them. tight? Loose? Agro, passive? Etc. Taking notes is the best.

      It also seems ot me you're not very confident of your game, I don't know why and am no expert in that department.

      Best I can do. I don't use a HUD either because I play unknowns all the time.

      Best regards,

      Mal.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Also if you're after a free trial, PokerTracker4 has HUD and offer 1 month free as well.

      Narrowing to a range is about knowing the opponent. Ask yourself questions like
      What has he made this line before with?
      What hands would he never do this with?
      And as you go through the streets, you can narrow down his range further and further. Of course, good opponents will surprise you with a hand you never thought they'd have.

      It is just about finding out tendencies. Everyone plays with some sort of pattern, some more than others, and some patterns are universal. Basically the more you play, the more you will learn to recognize both common patterns and specific patterns in your opponent.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,057
      Originally posted by killacasey
      [1] ... but what I'm getting at is that I'm a Nit.

      [2] I don't know how to react to aggression after the flop and when I have the nuts I don't get max EV because I'm always worried of being sucked out on.

      [3] I've tried getting the HM2 HUD free trial but my computer keeps telling me there are harmful files or something and wont let me download,

      [4] is there any other HUD's out there with free trials ?

      [5] It just seems like at the micro limits if I Isolate a limper and he calls, when I c-bet and he calls now what? can I automatically put him on top pair , a set or a pocket pair ?

      [6] it seems to me micro players call with alot of draws but how can I specifically put them on these hands I don't want to 2nd barrel with air so I'm forced to give up if I dont hit the turn after my c-bets have failed.

      [1] Hi killacasey My name is Vorpal and I used to be a nit.

      Then I watched this video. I just finished a 500 hand session of NL 25 (2 tables) and 3 tables of NL 10. I felt like a maniac. I used to timidly call w/ pocket pairs. Today I 3Bet them. I got into trouble a couple of time, true, but there is a fold button for that. Surprisingly, when done, my stats for the session looked like a TAG: 19/15 -- the 3Bet was higher than I've ever seen it at 12.3 but I figured I'd back off when they stopped folding but they didn't (much).

      To make a long story short (too late), being a nit makes small amounts over a long time, but is boring. Live a little.

      [2] "...I'm always worried of being sucked out on. "
      Yes, it will happen. This is called "scared money". You want to win a wee bit too much. In poker you must want to win, but you need to let go of the emotion when you lose. Post hands in the Hand Eval forums, and Veriz will tell you "bet bigger". I could never figure this out, because it seemed to me that you just lost more that way. But really, it is the cure for the people drawing against you.
      If you price them out of the hand, if they call, when their draw FAILS (most of the time) you will have made enough to cover the losses. If you give them odds to call they might just even semi-bluff by 3Betting you. Then if you fold even 33% of the time they make money hit or not.

      Another time is when you call a pre-flop raise with a pocket pair. You're in position and the raiser checks on an A-high flop. Bet. Always. Yes you will lose to the trappers, but you'll get (almost) all of the pocket pairs and broadways etc. Live a little.

      [3] Like you, your computer is being overprotective. If you download HM2s trial from their website, and follow the instructions there is no malware involved. Most of those popups are warnings, and there is an option (usually) to over-ride the warning. If you have trouble, contact HM2 support. Their support is great. Better than their software even. <sorry -- couldn't resist>

      [4] Poker Tracker 4.
      In fact, PT4 has a longer free trial. Both tools have their following.
      There is also FPDB, but it is not for the faint of heart. It takes a lot of time and effort to make it work well, but it is free permanently. It lacks the polish of the commercial products, and support is strictly by forum.

      [5] If you isolate a limper and he calls, you know he thinks he has something.
      Some people call w/ any 2 suited cards, some w/ suited Aces, some with pocket pairs. When the flop comes see what they do with your CBet. Do you have Equilab? Get it. You need it. With it, you will be able to understand how your hands stack up to your opponents perceived ranges.

      Take notes. If you see a guy playing suited crap, note it etc.

      [6] Too much depends on the specific flop texture to really answer this.
      A huge amount depends on your plan for future streets You do have one, don't you? If you don't see a path through to the river, don't CBet. Play check/fold till the end. You can change your mind if a couple of miracle cards fall, but basically, don't waste money if you're going to fold it away later.

      [Finally]
      Most of the poker advice in this reply is somewhat exaggerated (okay, okay -- all of it). Also, I am not a coach, nor any form of poker expert. Study to find your own game.

      Hope that wall of text didn't knock you out. If you glanced here w/o reading it, just skip all of the above, and watch pleno's video

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,888
      Originally posted by metza
      And as you go through the streets, you can narrow down his range further and further. Of course, good opponents will surprise you with a hand you never thought they'd have.
      bad opponents will surprise you even more often
    • killacasey
      killacasey
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.07.2010 Posts: 9
      Thanks alot Vorpal I really appreciate helpin someone out when you dont no me or owe me anything, thanks for the support