[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL 50 JJ vs flop raise on low drawy board

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Prima, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      CO: $82.73 (165.5 bb)
      BTN: $50 (100 bb)
      SB: $50.76 (101.5 bb)
      Hero (BB): $64.43 (128.9 bb)
      UTG: $56.76 (113.5 bb)
      MP: $50 (100 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with J J
      2 folds, CO raises to $1.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.25

      Flop: ($3.75) 4 7 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.50, CO raises to $9, Hero folds

      Thought that villain is very unlikely to be raise bluffing this board texture so I opted to fold thinking that I'm either slightly ahead or way behind.
  • 8 replies
    • iambanker
      iambanker
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2011 Posts: 5,519
      Hi,

      any reason to not 3bet pf?

      I also don't like flop donk, play c/c.
    • jachis
      jachis
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 745
      I agree that 3betting pre should be fine in these positions.
      Im fine with the flop donk since this is a flop where villians cbet frequency shouldnt be to high, althou I would donk a bit bigger. Against a raise its a tought spot, he could be just blindly attacking donkbets, but without any info Im fine with folding.
      I think that there are to many bad turncards for us to ch/c the flop.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      So I guess you guys are playing for 130bb with JJ in this spot pre ?
    • iambanker
      iambanker
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.06.2011 Posts: 5,519
      I won't be happy about it, but yes, if he is not super nit in pf stack-off and able to light 4bet. And also, I am not 3betting because I want to get it in pf, I want to get value, because I assume he calls 3bet with worse hands.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello DeMarcohsp,

      Preflop: Most likely also 3bet it for value and reevaluate the further actions. Though I wouldn't say that I am always planning to play for the stacks here for 130bb.

      As played
      Postflop: Not a huge fan of donking either cause your donking range is very often weak here and he could easily understand that as well and just raise even with Ace high which has a backdoor equity or whatasoever overcards. Rather Check it and reevaluate his play.

      Best Regards.
    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Hey veriz,

      I actually disagree with you here. I think we should be donking all our strong hands here like sets, 2pair, straights. I have 66/77 here in my range and he can't assume that I don't have any SC's.

      Reason for this is that we can't expect him to cbet this board without a piece imo since people are calling sc's OOP decently often.

      A 40% range has us beat here 9.5% this is again one more argument for donking.

      And btw, how else to play it? I think the other 2 options are a lot worse:
      -check raising pretty isolates us against a very strong range.
      -check calling is going to give free cards all the time the same way check raising will.
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,807
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      Hey veriz,

      I actually disagree with you here. I think we should be donking all our strong hands here like sets, 2pair, straights. I have 66/77 here in my range and he can't assume that I don't have any SC's.

      Reason for this is that we can't expect him to cbet this board without a piece imo since people are calling sc's OOP decently often.
      will.
      Hey guys,

      not an SH player but would like to share my opinion.
      I personally would Cbet here with A high for thin value against a passive opponent and R a lot of donks bets(if they C I very often think that they are gonna have some sort of draw). OK, if you wanna donk strong hands, you X/R draws and X/C weak hands?
      I would also prefer a 3bet pre but was kinda curios does he always make 3,5x from CO or was there a fish in front of him? I guess my line would depend on the opponent but without any infos I guess as played pre I would X/C flop and reevaluate turn.
      But to be honest depending how I saw him I m even tempted for a X/R. Since we disguissed our hand and due to our preflop action our perceived range is very often gonna be some sort of draw,2pair,set,straight(the most part our range are gonna be draws), but as I said depends how I saw him.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Sikac
      Originally posted by DeMarcohsp
      Hey veriz,

      I actually disagree with you here. I think we should be donking all our strong hands here like sets, 2pair, straights. I have 66/77 here in my range and he can't assume that I don't have any SC's.

      Reason for this is that we can't expect him to cbet this board without a piece imo since people are calling sc's OOP decently often.
      will.
      Hey guys,

      not an SH player but would like to share my opinion.
      I personally would Cbet here with A high for thin value against a passive opponent and R a lot of donks bets(if they C I very often think that they are gonna have some sort of draw). OK, if you wanna donk strong hands, you X/R draws and X/C weak hands?
      I would also prefer a 3bet pre but was kinda curios does he always make 3,5x from CO or was there a fish in front of him? I guess my line would depend on the opponent but without any infos I guess as played pre I would X/C flop and reevaluate turn.
      But to be honest depending how I saw him I m even tempted for a X/R. Since we disguissed our hand and due to our preflop action our perceived range is very often gonna be some sort of draw,2pair,set,straight(the most part our range are gonna be draws), but as I said depends how I saw him.
      Pretty much it, though Check/Raising isn't going to be the best idea cause we are rather turning our hand into bluff this way whilst he continues mainly with draws.