Losing a lot of money without showdown (graph)

    • Mc2G
      Mc2G
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2009 Posts: 13


      I play on Pokerstars NL10 and I am following mss charts on this site. According to this graph it seems I have a leak in my postflop game, although I'm trying to play by "the book" published in articles on this site. I know that I play like a total nit, because thats what you're supposed to play if you're playing MSS, but man that red line in the graph sure looks ugly :D

      Any comments, thoughts, feedback would be much appreciated. Cheers!
  • 19 replies
    • ctstc
      ctstc
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.11.2009 Posts: 6,280
      Hi,
      no one can say what your problem are, without knowing your Stats, your exact game etc. You can book a private coaching, visit the public coachings, post Hands etc.

      But normally you have to steal and resteal more. At the beginning most user are too tight in this part of the game.
    • Mc2G
      Mc2G
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2009 Posts: 13
      Yeah you are right. I just realised that I lost 54$ on SB and BB. So obviously I'm not defending my blinds enough.

      Thanks for your help ctstc, much apreciated :s_thumbsup:
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      I'm pretty sure having a negative redline is normal for MSS... Your greenline is what counts and thats going in the right direction so I wouldn't worry too much about it!

      Just keep reading articles and posting hands and you should be grand
    • sokoi
      sokoi
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 125
      my graph is very similiar and I'm using MSS on NL2/NL4 I was just about to post the very same question so thanks in advanced. The good thing is that green line is staying "a float" I've had a few dips below the surface and thankfully I'm back up for some air and going in the right direction. Cheers keep up the good work.
    • Saren113
      Saren113
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2009 Posts: 2,867
      Gl with having a positive redline on the micros were people simply don't fold ^^. Another aspect of it might be that you aren't value betting thin etc. But is't no biggie on micros.
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Originally posted by Saren113
      Gl with having a positive redline on the micros were people simply don't fold ^^. Another aspect of it might be that you aren't value betting thin etc. But is't no biggie on micros.
      Positive redline in micros is very possible.
      It just comes down to playing style.
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336


      [x] Positive redline at micros

      This is BSS btw.
    • JohnDoe1313
      JohnDoe1313
      Platinum
      Joined: 04.01.2011 Posts: 5,078
      Originally posted by holmeboy


      [x] Positive redline at micros

      This is BSS btw.
      [ ] Sample
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Originally posted by JohnDoe1313

      [ ] Sample
      +1
    • kingkong2
      kingkong2
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 88
      my lines are way different than that . i am way up with out showdown , losing money with showdown ,
    • JohnDoe1313
      JohnDoe1313
      Platinum
      Joined: 04.01.2011 Posts: 5,078
      Originally posted by kingkong2
      my lines are way different than that . i am way up with out showdown , losing money with showdown ,
      That means you have serious leaks in your game. You are probably too aggressive and have no postflop edge.
    • kingkong2
      kingkong2
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 88
      so thats whats wrong with my game . Thank You :f_cry:
    • duckspace
      duckspace
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.11.2010 Posts: 222
      Originally posted by kingkong2
      so thats whats wrong with my game . Thank You :f_cry:
      as your style, you bluff too much. your oppenent will fold all marginal hands, waiting JJ+ or AK with TPTK playing their all stakes with you.
    • JohnDoe1313
      JohnDoe1313
      Platinum
      Joined: 04.01.2011 Posts: 5,078
      Originally posted by kingkong2
      so thats whats wrong with my game . Thank You :f_cry:
      Sorry to disappoint you :( But if you take little effort to improve you'll be fine.
    • mglmstr
      mglmstr
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.11.2008 Posts: 2
      I created a video recently that goes into depth about this.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1lsTJ9bD9M&feature=plcp

      About half way through we filter for the various showdown streets, then look at some stats to see why it is the way it is. Sample size for the villain in this video is small, but the same theories apply to larger sample sizes.

      GL,
      Brent
      HM Brand Manager
    • mineriva
      mineriva
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2008 Posts: 913
      Small sample size but it shows nice solid win.

      True you can win more and yes the red line is down. My guess is that you bleeding bb's in steal and resteal situations.

      Look at your steal attempts and compair to the recommended range. Look at resteal situation and com pair to the recommended range.

      Post the following stats here for comment
      Steal from Co
      Steal from Btn
      Sb fold to steal
      Sb call steal
      Sb raise steal
      Bb fold to steal
      Bb call steal
      Bb raise steal
    • Mc2G
      Mc2G
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2009 Posts: 13
      Thanks for your help mineriva.
      Analyzing the situation I would have to agree with you, I think I'm losing too much money on SB and BB. Here are my stats on 6.631 hands :

      Steal from Co - 12.9
      Steal from Btn - 27.6
      Sb fold to steal - 89.83
      Sb raise steal - 10.17
      Bb fold to steal - 90.78
      Bb raise steal - 9.22

      Apparently MSS steal/resteal chart, which I'm following, might be too tight and I need to loosen up in that department.
    • mineriva
      mineriva
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2008 Posts: 913
      yes those stats seem in line with the chart.

      IMHO once a MSS player knows and understands the charts the first deviation is in these situations.

      What I surgest is that you change your betsize when stealing to 2BB. This will mean that it will only have to work less than 60% of the time whereas opeing with 3BB needs to work 66% of the time.

      Next I will surgest that when you on the D and have two blinds BOTH with a fold to steal of above 75% (or one with 100% and one with above 70% ) you should steal EVERY DEALER. When in CO and you have a BTN with a VPIP <16 and 3bet<5 and blinds as described the you steal EVERY CO.

      So now you will steal all the hands in chart + all situations where you can steal ATC.

      Keep an eye on your steal btn and steal co. Steal CO we need to go at least above 20 and steal BTN above 35. That is our start.

      Your resteal will also need to go higher. My advise is keep the 9 or 10 % hands that you restealing for value and include about half as many bluffs. Pick the opponents with the steal stats of above 45% or that have fold to resteal of above 66%.

      Oh and keep your resteal size to approx 3X the raise so that it needs to work about 66% of the time.

      Try that for 5K hands and then we look again.
    • Mc2G
      Mc2G
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.09.2009 Posts: 13
      Very useful tips mineriva! I will definitely need to improve my steal/resteal game in the future, so thanks a lot for your help it is much appreciated :)