79s buvsbb

    • Deliveranced
      Joined: 15.06.2012 Posts: 222
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $6(BB) Replayer
      SB ($706)
      Hero ($1,326)
      CO ($591)
      BTN ($591)

      Dealt to Hero 7:heart: 9:heart:

      fold, BTN raises to $12, fold, Hero calls $6

      FLOP ($27) T:heart: K:heart: T:club:

      Hero checks, BTN bets $18, Hero raises to $64, BTN calls $46

      TURN ($155) T:heart: K:heart: T:club: 7:spade:

      Hero bets $122, BTN calls $122

      RIVER ($399) T:heart: K:heart: T:club: 7:spade: A:club:

      Hero bets $1,128 (AI),

      Villain is good msnl player, plays some high stakes occasionally too, I think.
      Over 300 hands he's playing 26/22/11.4 with 75% bu open. Most of it was played 3-4handed when starting tables. He probably sees me as playing pretty laggy 3-4 handed but pretty solid 6handed.

      Flop I have to either c/r or c/f I think. Flatting sucks on so many runouts and I don't even have the nfd. Turn is a must barrel as well (im guessing he will fold his K2 on the turn should he have flatted it on the flop).

      His calling range probably looks something along the lines of Tx, Kx with a goodish kicker, maybe Axhh? and KT of course. I excluded QJ, but I think in retrospect that QJhh might be in his range as well.

      River looks like an obvious shove vs his range. He can't herocall that much as some draws get there and he might not expect me to vb thinly this river (leading me to think that he might fold Tx, but call Ax sometimes that somehow gets to the river if that makes sense, as I look pretty polarised between busted fd's and straights/full houses/Tx).

      Like/dislike? Do you prefer c/f / or c/c on any street over betting ourselves?
  • 6 replies
    • getdotacom
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      I like donking on this flop a lot and this hand definitely is perfect for that. I assume u don't have donking range here, but I'd recommend to get some. Villain will check back this board very often and our range hits this pretty good, so donking makes a lot of sense.
      As played, I like c/c turn. He will never put us on flush if we hit, actually that looks so weird from a reg. I probably wouldn't be able to put a reg on any hand vs that line :)
    • lnternet
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      You have a very nitty approach postflop Deliv.

      Your hand is a perfectly fine check call on the flop. I don't mind raising but calling is much better than folding.

      You also said you think he folds K2 on the turn.. while your sizing is fairly large (not bad, but could be smaller) I don't think you will get many folds from a K here. I also think he calls a lot more fds on the turn than just AXhh. think J8hh etc.

      I think the turn bet is pretty bad to be honest. He doesn't fold enough better hands to make it a bluff. He obviously doesn't call enough worse hands to make it a value bet. So why are you betting? I prefer check and then you certainly have enough equity against a reasonable bet to check call.

      River seems good to me. You have very little showdown value, so checking is almost never winning. You have a good number of value hands that you need to balance, but you don't have too many bluffs with a blocker, while this hand has the 7 which makes T7 a bit less likely. Doesn't make a huge difference but 97 is a better jam than 98. So I think that's fine.
    • Deliveranced
      Joined: 15.06.2012 Posts: 222
      thanks guys, much appreciated. I definately underestimated c/c'ing flop with this hand by thinking about the abs value of it on the flop/most turns but in retrospect I think I have to c/c 100% of my range that I continue with on this board, indeed.

      I'm not sure about donking in this spot imo, it's probably/certainly more face-up than c/c'ing as a whole tbh. I really don't expect villain to ch/b a lot on this flop like you said so why would we ever have a donking range here? maybe if we expect villain to play back like crazy when we donk it'd be better to have such a range in this spot so we can donk/3b fd's/oesd's and donk/call our nut hands?

      I guess my turn bet is some sort of weird merge? (I get some value out of higher fd's and OESD's and bluff some (few) K's off of their hand? I would then have to c/c a bunch of rivers though, and probably even c/f a heart). I'm not trying to defend my play by any means but I think this is one of the spots where betting ourselves is better for balancing our overall value/semi-bluffing range, esp vs a thinking player.

      @internet, can you accept the friend request? wanna ask you a few questions. ty
    • BC1989RF
      Joined: 09.04.2010 Posts: 845
      i was about to say bad bluff/we get called too often but i act think Kx makes up for the biggest part of his river range like 40-60% and i think he folds them really often on this river.

      also i dont like flop c/r cause what do you do turn after he b/c? theres not many good turn cards to barrel. and this is not a texture ppl 2barrel that often so you mite get away w/ a float oop.
    • lnternet
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      I didn't get a friend request from you, I sent one to you now.

      About donking

      Villain will check back this board very often

      and our range hits this pretty good

      not true. both ranges his this about equally. we have a big higher percentage of Tx, he has AK KQ KK therefor.

      I don't think this is a good board to donk. I don't think it's a terrible one, but I don't like it. If we were to donk then the medium flush draw fits into that range, I agree with that.
    • yoshiwa
      Joined: 23.02.2009 Posts: 8,454
      Hi guys,
      I agree with what internet says.
      I used to be the guy cbetting the turn in some sort of 'stubborn' cbet like , hey , i have a draw, my equity improved, so lets bet.
      But like he says, vill range for bet-calling flop is like calling 90% on a T bet, while we are behind on the range i guess.
      My question now is, i agree betting isn't the best option. Often tough you face like a 3/4 pot bet when you check.
      You already need kind of alot of implieds to make up for the lack of direct odds, +you can be totally dead already+ you could be calling vs a better FD-->reverse implieds.

      This combined with the fact you cant ever bluf the river when you go ch-r F, ch-c turn since you will be looked up that often, you will be bluffed of your hand on every R where you don't improve (we cant possible ch-c/b-f R) , and our hand is superface-up valuebet if we donkbet the R if we hit, so i wonder if a call on the T is +EV at all.