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[NL2-NL10] [SH] NL10 zoom, JJ

    • TetraQuark
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,521
      $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by

      UTG ($17.43) 174bb
      Hero (UTG+1) ($10) 100bb
      CO ($30.19) 302bb
      BTN ($20.43) 204bb
      SB ($47.47) 475bb
      BB ($10.69) 107bb

      Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is UTG+1 J J
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BTN raises to $1.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.80

      Flop: 4 6 7 ($2.35, 2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $1.55, Hero calls $1.55

      Turn: 9 ($5.45, 2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $3.30, Hero goes all-in $7.35, BTN calls $4.05

      River: 5 ($20.15, 2 players, 1 all-in)
      Final Pot: $20.15 BTN shows a pair of Queens Q Q Hero shows a pair of Jacks J J BTN wins $19.24 (net +$9.24) Hero lost $10

      Villain is 21/17. AF 2.1, 3b 5.2% vsMP 8.1(86), flopCbet3B 80(5) turnCet3B 100(2).

      Maybe this is a leak I have. Whenever I see a board run out like this I just seem to lightheartedly stackoff my strong pairs.
  • 4 replies
    • awishformore
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Depending on stats, you could fold this pre-flop. My standard against unknown is indeed to fold, especially with the big 3-bet sizing in spite of his position. That's usually a sign of strength, a big hand trying to get value.

      As played, it's very tricky to play right. I'm not sure what you want to achieve by raising the turn; yes, you will protect your hand, but you will also isolate yourself against all his stronger hands: QQ+, sets, maybe some two-pair. Most of his overpairs have a redraw against your flush, so you are even slightly ahead/behind or totally crushed.

      If you really don't want to let go, your only option is to call down to keep his bluffs in. That's however a very calling station approach and very spewy a lot of the time. I would only do that against a super aggressive player who 3-bets a lot and always barrels. Even then, you might be better of 4-betting and getting it in pre-flop.

      So once again: as played, I would call turn and re-evaluate river. However, in general, I would refrain from calling 3-bets OOP. In this case, it's even a big 3-bet, I would thus by far prefer pre-flop fold.
    • DeMarcohsp
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Hi Gregor86,

      What kind of range are you having for flatting here? My guess that it's something like JJ/TT and AQs/AJs. If this is so this is deff a leak and you should be thinking more about your preflop ranges.

      As played I can only say that as mentioned your turn play is quite bad since nobody is ever continuing bluffing there after you called flop on that board texture.

      I'll let the sample grow before I decide to play back against such a player. Even though his 3bet looks big his overall is quite small so it is probably just a matter of variance.

      If you 4bet QQ/AK I'd consider folding JJ here.

      Best regards.
    • TetraQuark
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,521
      No I don't have a standard flatting range in this spot pre. I know playing oop is hard so I tend to stay away from it.

      But in spots like this where villains range is a bit bigger (8 is pretty much top value range times two) I think I cannot just let go JJ pre. I can play it oop to get value from his bluff cbets.

      So on turn we assume there is not enough semibluffing hands in his range to make my shove profitable right?

      So what do we do w JJ, AQs, AJs pre in a spot where villain has 7-9% 3b and we don't know his 4b fold frequencies?

      Or even if he does fold a lot to 4b isn't it a waste of a good hand like JJ, AQs, AJs, since we kinda isolate ourselves and a 3b of 9% cosists of a lot of hands we dominate? Or does being OOP outweight that?

      Hope I you get what I am trying to get to know :f_confused:
    • DeMarcohsp
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      Hi Gregor 86,

      We have some options. In this spot I was only saying that since his overall 3bet % is 5% I don't think he is having 8% vs MP and it is just variance.

      Against a player that has 8% our options are to:
      -continue playing a 4bet/folding game where we expand our 4bet for value range to AQ/JJ/TT and consequently our 4bet bluffing range as well.

      -develop a flatting range which should have strong hands in it as well. If it only has JJ/AQs/AJs it really sucks and the opponent can play perfectly againt us. If we mix in some AA/KK/AK and some weaker stuff (tt/99) now we start having some range to play with.

      Best regards.