[NL2-NL10] bu AQ, raise the weak betsizing?

    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Poker Stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1936482
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      SB: $1.25 - VPIP: 38, PFR: 31, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 13
      BB: $2.82 - VPIP: 54, PFR: 16, 3B: 13, AF: 1.8, Hands: 37
      UTG: $1.31 - VPIP: 30, PFR: 10, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 10
      CO: $1.66 - VPIP: 40, PFR: 30, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 10
      Hero (BTN): $2.00 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 2.1, Hands: 29424

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with A :club: Q :diamond:
      1 fold, CO raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.08, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.26) 5 :spade: 4 :heart: K :diamond: (3 players)
      SB checks, CO bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16, SB folds

      Turn: ($0.58) 8 :spade: (2 players)
      CO bets $0.26, Hero?

      His bet size gone even weaker, I think I should raise-bluff. Or not a wise move with low equity?
  • 13 replies
    • pyropove
      pyropove
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.07.2011 Posts: 36
      Folding on the flop after you missed seems better. What were you expecting to happen on the turn? Anyway, there's no need to fight a bluff with a bluff. Just let him bluff your value hands when he doesn't have position on you like in this case.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Imimba1,

      Fold flop? That should be it. :D Bet sizing could have various reasons why it's weak, maybe does want to get value from exact hand as you have. :)

      Best Regards.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello Imimba1,

      Fold flop? That should be it. :D Bet sizing could have various reasons why it's weak, maybe does want to get value from exact hand as you have. :)

      Best Regards.
      If this was a HU pot, we could call ont he flop, right? I mean, we are ahead of his range. The problem is, that loose SB is after us, right?
    • awishformore
      awishformore
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2007 Posts: 922
      Why do you think you are ahead of his range?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello Imimba1,

      Fold flop? That should be it. :D Bet sizing could have various reasons why it's weak, maybe does want to get value from exact hand as you have. :)

      Best Regards.
      If this was a HU pot, we could call ont he flop, right? I mean, we are ahead of his range. The problem is, that loose SB is after us, right?
      Why do you think you are ahead? As asked above. :P
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello Imimba1,

      Fold flop? That should be it. :D Bet sizing could have various reasons why it's weak, maybe does want to get value from exact hand as you have. :)

      Best Regards.
      If this was a HU pot, we could call ont he flop, right? I mean, we are ahead of his range. The problem is, that loose SB is after us, right?
      Why do you think you are ahead? As asked above. :P
      His bet size even got weaker on the turn. From 60%-->45%
      Yep, he could have KK ofc, it's 3 combinations. While e.g. TT-QQ is 18.
      They should fold to a raise here. Or we shouldnt do this unknown, because an AVARAGE nl2 player calls too much?
      I just want to emphasize that someone being unknown is not enough reason to stop bluffing. Saying something like: an avarage nl2 player calls too often, so if someone is unknown, suppose he's avarage until proved otherwise. That's a very good argument.
      We have to get every value we can from every hand, simply folding when we miss is just plain weak imo. How do we know we are NOT ahead?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Originally posted by veriz
      Hello Imimba1,

      Fold flop? That should be it. :D Bet sizing could have various reasons why it's weak, maybe does want to get value from exact hand as you have. :)

      Best Regards.
      If this was a HU pot, we could call ont he flop, right? I mean, we are ahead of his range. The problem is, that loose SB is after us, right?
      Why do you think you are ahead? As asked above. :P
      His bet size even got weaker on the turn. From 60%-->45%
      Yep, he could have KK ofc, it's 3 combinations. While e.g. TT-QQ is 18.
      They should fold to a raise here. Or we shouldnt do this unknown, because an AVARAGE nl2 player calls too much?
      I just want to emphasize that someone being unknown is not enough reason to stop bluffing. Saying something like: an avarage nl2 player calls too often, so if someone is unknown, suppose he's avarage until proved otherwise. That's a very good argument.
      We have to get every value we can from every hand, simply folding when we miss is just plain weak imo. How do we know we are NOT ahead?
      We clearly can't Call the flop already, so why we are we even talking about turn? :) I was talking about the flop-call where is the mistake done.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      I was thinking about preflop: I have an urge to 3bet to avoid a multiway-pot.
      BUT
      If I flatcall, many dominated hands can follow (SB-BB look loose), so I have fantastic implied odds.

      Which one is the +ev? :rolleyes:
    • dienaszaglis
      dienaszaglis
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.06.2008 Posts: 999
      Depends, how often CO folds to 3bets. I would 3bet him for value, if he`s folding less than 70%
      Flatting is also fine, if there are loose players in the blinds.

      About flop, as played: what about raising villains CB? I know that we can`t represent much, but even 3way such a player should c-bet almost all of his range.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      I was thinking about preflop: I have an urge to 3bet to avoid a multiway-pot.
      BUT
      If I flatcall, many dominated hands can follow (SB-BB look loose), so I have fantastic implied odds.

      Which one is the +ev? :rolleyes:
      Calling is still fine there cause CO is most likely opening worse hands. :) Which one is better or not depends against which opponents we playing, what opponents behind us and afterwards we can decide that.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
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      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by veriz
      Calling is still fine there cause CO is most likely opening worse hands.
      1) If he opens worse hands, why couldnt we 3bet for value and avoid a multiway pot? I dont understand, why the fact that he has a worse hand makes it better to just call than 3betting.


      2) I personally wouldnt mind a multiway pot, so many dominated hands could follow. But some of the articles sugges to avoid it because of the reverse implied odds. What do you think in this situation Veriz?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      1) If he opens worse hands, why couldnt we 3bet for value and avoid a multiway pot? I dont understand, why the fact that he has a worse hand makes it better to just call than 3betting.

      Cause we may have to fold our strong hand to his 4bet which he may even do loose. And also folds a lot weaker hands and might only continue stronger hands? I don't know the opponent well enough to do a 3bet for value. :)

      2) I personally wouldnt mind a multiway pot, so many dominated hands could follow. But some of the articles sugges to avoid it because of the reverse implied odds. What do you think in this situation Veriz?

      What do you mean reversed implied odds? Vs a most likely wide range you don't have that much reversed implied odds cause only vs AK/QQ+ we have it but otherwise vs any other hand we have rather them dominated. Depends also of course on your postflop understanding, whilst you tend to overplay a lot postflop I'd recommend 3betting instead.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      .