Theory Foundations for 6 Max

    • Verre
      Verre
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.02.2009 Posts: 708
      Hi all,

      I have been playing about 20k hands of nl25 and 50 Zoom. My problem is that I feel my theory foundation is weaker than it should be and I looking for a good source of text based learning as well as a video recommendation list.

      Currently my redline is my money maker while my blue line is the opposite. I know this varys hugely from a lot of what is taught here in the strategy pages. The thing is, I've always been a feel player and I cannot play from graphs. I know them but I feel I play poorly while implementing them.

      My strength comes from reads on opponents holdings. I make big bluffs. I realized recently that with big bluffs you have to counter with big overbet value bets to compensate.

      Regardless, with my current play style my blue line should be break even and it isn't. Any help with sources will be greatly appreciated.
  • 7 replies
    • surfwell1818
      surfwell1818
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.11.2009 Posts: 137
      Have you seen or read any of Pleno1 "Ask me anything about 6Max" forum blog here at pokerstrategy.com?
      It's 20+ pages long, Q and A style.He is a zoom guy to.
      It makes for a good read I think.
      Peace
      Simon
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      it probably means you are 3barrel bluffing too often and maybe 5betting preflop with an overly wide range
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      Originally posted by mbml
      it probably means you are 3barrel bluffing too often and maybe 5betting preflop with an overly wide range
      +1
      At some point, "betting for thin value" is better read as "overplaying your hand" or "semi-bluffing'

      I'm fighting a similar problem, with similar symptoms.

      There is a balance between passive <==> aggressive and tight <==> loose
      If you shift to the right in either, you must be very good at reading the other guy and be ready to pull the pin on any hand.

      I cannot confirm this from my own stats since my sample is only about 150K hands, and I've been learning the whole time, so there the play is wildly inconsistent.

      However, I've noticed this general tendency.
      Coaches, please correct me if I'm way off here:
      As you become more aggressive, your red line improves, since opponents fold more.
      As you become tighter, your blue line improves, since you are playing quality hands.

      If you become TOO aggressive, you end up taking poorer hands to showdown, so your blue line suffers.
      If you become TOO tight, you fold too much and your red line suffers.

      The trick is finding the balance, and I personally believe that the balance is totally table-dependant -- and perhaps even opponent dependant.

      And I haven't found it yet ?(
    • Raknyo
      Raknyo
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.12.2011 Posts: 422
      I have recently started to tackle the 6-max theory, and spent nearly the last week focusing on primarily on pre-flop aspects. There is a wealth of information in the articles section, non of it really focuses on FR so you can learn a lot for SH from it. Also, have a look in the Columns and Quizzes section of strategy, I never even knew this place existed til last week and some are the columns are awesome for helping you to improve your understanding.

      What I've noticed from my own session reviews (my red line is also my money maker) is that I'm not putting my opponents on ranges enough and are therefore calling there bets when I am crushed by their range. This works the other way as I sometimes miss +EV river bluffs as well.

      Another big problem I had was second and triple barrelling with air, again putting my opponents on ranges has greatly helped me see whether a bet for value or fold equity is worth while.

      Hope you manage to find to find and correct your own mistakes!
    • cgoldie
      cgoldie
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.08.2010 Posts: 73
      Originally posted by Verre
      My strength comes from reads on opponents holdings. I make big bluffs. I realized recently that with big bluffs you have to counter with big overbet value bets to compensate.
      If your blue line is negative then your probably bluffing when you shouldn't or over valuing your own hands.
    • SchnitzelF
      SchnitzelF
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.10.2012 Posts: 42
      Hey,

      I've moved this to a more relevant forum where it is more likely that you will get a good response.

      -SF
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      Originally posted by cgoldie
      Originally posted by Verre
      My strength comes from reads on opponents holdings. I make big bluffs. I realized recently that with big bluffs you have to counter with big overbet value bets to compensate.
      If your blue line is negative then your probably bluffing when you shouldn't or over valuing your own hands.
      If you are overly passive, you end up at showdown with 2nd best a lot too.

      Recommend you read this forum post called "the red line myth".
      In it the author lists several reasons why your blue and red lines are interchangeable.

      Value betting rivers where no worse hand will call, and no better hand will fold, for example. This takes the exact same amount of $ and moves them from blue to red.

      Being overly passive might do the opposite.

      Being too loose on the other hand will hurt either line depending on whether you fold your trash or take it to showdown.

      As always, It is your green line that matters!