[NL2-NL10] bu 55, 3bpot bluffing

    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Poker Stars $5.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (BTN): $5.00 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 16, 3B: 5, AF: 2,1, Hands: 29664
      SB: $6.08 - VPIP: 12, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 0,0, Hands: 17
      BB: $5.31 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 29, 3B: 17, AF: 0,0, Hands: 17
      UTG: $5.05 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 17, 3B: 13, AF: 1,0, Hands: 42
      MP: $5.27 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 16, 3B: 0, AF: 6,0, Hands: 80
      CO: $5.81 - VPIP: 8, PFR: 8, 3B: 7, AF: 0,0, Hands: 40

      Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with 5 :heart: 5 :diamond:
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.30

      Flop: ($0.92) A :club: 4 :club: 7 :diamond: (2 players)
      BB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.44
      If he doesnt have an A, he's going to fold. So weak bet sizing.
  • 13 replies
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,808
      Hey Imimba1,

      How much should he bet here? I mean I m betting here the same amount maybe a bit bigger. If he makes it bigger he creates to much FE.
      Also how did you know that he is gonna fold all his premium or medium PP if you dont even know him? I wouldnt be sure as you are since we are talikng here about NL5. Did you have any plan in case he calls?What do you think his 3bet restealing range looks like? I would personally purely set mine and dont try to fancy at all.

      Best regards,
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by Sikac
      Hey Imimba1,

      How much should he bet here? I mean I m betting here the same amount maybe a bit bigger. If he makes it bigger he creates to much FE.
      Also how did you know that he is gonna fold all his premium or medium PP if you dont even know him? I wouldnt be sure as you are since we are talikng here about NL5. Did you have any plan in case he calls?What do you think his 3bet restealing range looks like? I would personally purely set mine and dont try to fancy at all.

      Best regards,
      He'd also bet this size with weaker hands then Ax.
      Well, I cant be sure that he's going to fold. But I can't be sure that he's NOT going to fold either.
      If he calls, he wont fold imo later on, so giving up. He could have many hands in his 3betting range. The problem is, that Ax hands are the most common?

      Bluffing is a part of poker, I dont know why would people call this ,,fancy".
    • HansTheGreat
      HansTheGreat
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 3,808
      Originally posted by Imimba1
      Originally posted by Sikac
      Hey Imimba1,

      How much should he bet here? I mean I m betting here the same amount maybe a bit bigger. If he makes it bigger he creates to much FE.
      Also how did you know that he is gonna fold all his premium or medium PP if you dont even know him? I wouldnt be sure as you are since we are talikng here about NL5. Did you have any plan in case he calls?What do you think his 3bet restealing range looks like? I would personally purely set mine and dont try to fancy at all.

      Best regards,
      He'd also bet this size with weaker hands then Ax.
      Well, I cant be sure that he's going to fold. But I can't be sure that he's NOT going to fold either.
      If he calls, he wont fold imo later on, so giving up. He could have many hands in his 3betting range. The problem is, that Ax hands are the most common?

      Bluffing is a part of poker, I dont know why would people call this ,,fancy".
      Well, of course bluffing is part of the game but how much it is involved or I should better say usefull on a certain limit. The ''fancy'' word referes to the fact that with your raise you generate FE but the problem on that limit is that he wont fold most likely non KK,QQ or weak Ax so our FE is pretty low and our bluffs doesnt have that many success nor make any sense.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Thanks a lot Sikac for your explanation! :heart:
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Imimba1,

      Easy and simple rule, follow your plan which should be going for set-mining. It's a 3bet pot so the CB size is pretty standard. :)

      Best Regards.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      It hard for me to let this hand go. We need only 44% fold equity with these bet sizes.
      With a 17% 3bet range, mostly 40% of his hands have an A, and many of these wont go broke, they just 3betted because of the blocker effect.
      If I assume that all hand weaker then Apair folds, this is profitable. I dont like it when you ask: how do you know he is going to fold?
      I could ask the same question: how do you know he is NOT going to fold?
      Is an avarage nl5 player willing to go broke here with KK-JJ, A5 etc.?
      Sometimes I'm a stupid fish and I do...

      A csávó dobott.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Got to disagree with some coaches here, on this level people WILL fold KK/QQ/JJ to a raise on this flop, for sure. They'll go on with Ax-hand only. So if you're going to turn your 55 into a bluff, this flop is actually rather good for it.

      On the contrary I got to say that bluffing with 55 is extremely dangerous here and quite often opponent has A there in a 3-bet pot. Set-mining is the key here, so fold to cbet on that flop.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      I feel like many people are limiting themselves. Play only for set mining?
      Giving up tons of value imo. This is such an excellent bluffing situation. I need 44% FE. I have it vs such a loose person. If I have it, I HAVE TO bluff, otherwise I'm giving up value.

      It's like everyone is seeing monsters under the bed. ,,He 3bets and Cbets, he HAS to have an A." Why? He could cbet with any2 he 3betted.

      Just take a look how e.g. Isildur plays on microstakes on youtube. He runs over people. he can think outside of the bubble.
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Hello,

      As I said, this is a good flop to turn your hand into a bluff, but if you'd play ABC, then you should just fold this. But it's true, moves like this may increase your winrate a lot, unless you pull them in a wrong place or if you can't fold your hand to a raise.

      But against such an aggressive and loose opponent you can definitely raise/fold, as his 3-bet range doesn't consist only of Ax hands :)
    • seanspurs87
      seanspurs87
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2012 Posts: 112
      I'm not sure we can make the assumption that the opponent is loose after 17 hands. His 3 bet range of 17% is very misleading after this sample size. Sure we can bluff in this spot, but I don't think we are losing value if we just give up preflop or folding to a cbet, in fact I think I'd rather bluff 4bet here then raise the flop. In my experience on NL5 6max you don't need to start getting into tricky situations like this. Bluffing is part of poker, but the amount of times I've tried to bluff and it hasn't come off on NL5 6max is scary and once I calmed down a bit my win rate started improving. Don't need to win every pot!
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Result:
      They guy folded.


      This is a very marginal situation, so I dont think that there is one good solution here.
    • Philfox1985
      Philfox1985
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2010 Posts: 934
      I'm not a massive fan of the play with pocket 5's.

      I prefer the play with a hand with better equity if your called, so will usually wait for hands such as flush draws / straight draws and 'semi-bluff' raise.

      This makes more sense to me, weaker hands fold (these hands still have good equity against your draw), while the relatively strong hands call, and these are more willing to pay you off if you hit your draw.
    • Imimba1
      Imimba1
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.12.2011 Posts: 2,897
      Originally posted by seanspurs87
      Bluffing is part of poker, but the amount of times I've tried to bluff and it hasn't come off on NL5 6max is scary and once I calmed down a bit my win rate started improving. Don't need to win every pot!
      Yeah, should definietly listen to this.