Defense against open limping late position with monters

    • pblankfield
      Joined: 07.07.2012 Posts: 184

      I play currently 45 man 1,5$ MTSNGs and got trapped several times in the following scenario:

      I'm in the SB/BB with a decent hand (medium PP, broadway, Ace-rag suited...) and a late position player, typically BU open limps. My first reaction is to treat is as weak ("I want to see a flop") as most bad players would do that and I tend to shove for fold equity here. Several times the guy snap calls to reveal a true monster (QQ+). Classic trap,weak is strong, 2nd level I know... :f_biggrin:

      What are my options to defend if I suspect this to be a trap:

      - raise/fold or check?

      and afterwards?

      - Stack of on a perfect flop (two pair+,heavy draws) otherwise c/f ?
      - Bluff raise on any scary card (A typically) ?

      In general I would seek some advice here, any help appreciated.
  • 5 replies
    • Cagey
      Joined: 05.07.2011 Posts: 99
      Person dependent.
      If your playing against someone who seems to have a grasp of the game (ie played tight for early stages then suddenly open limps when blinds hit 200), I'd steer towards folding a lot.
      If its someone whose playing something like 70/30 id always shove any type of value, as you have fe and I've seen people limp call with almost any two.
      If its someone whose playing 20/0 or something, its range dependent, so just need to work out if your range is good vs theirs, as they are most likely calling all ins when only opening 20%.
      Also when antes come in obviously get a lot wider.
      Obviously this is very broad advice, but its very player dependent.
      Also, I cb on 95% of flops on 45 mans.
      Also, only bluff raise when your pretty certain they will fold, and only at early stages (or when you have enough chips to avoid putting yourself at risk by doing it)
    • pblankfield
      Joined: 07.07.2012 Posts: 184
      Thx, agree with everything

      I should have given more details:

      This situation occured already a few times in later stage when defending blinds actually maters.

      Villian is a good player TAG style who know to loosen up, someone I suspect to lay a trap.

      Each time villan was holdin an über - QQ/KK/AA

      Currently I see two options for both pre and post:


      1) Raise/fold to make him fold any speculative hands that want to see a cheap flop - even good player do that sometimes. If he follows I continue putting him on a slowplayed monster.

      2) Check it witch puts me at risk of having speculative hand that can hit a flop


      1) Check/fold if I miss

      2) Perfect flop - Axx when holding and ace/otherwise need two pairs+ or a super nice draw like an OESD+flush - value.

      2) Bluff - Axx when I put him on QQ+. Donkjam Obviously I will run into AA sometimes but does this has a chance to make him muck his QQ or KK?
    • Asaban
      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,220
      Hi pblankfield and welcome to the mtt strategy board :)

      I hope you will post here more often!

      The spot you describe really depends on your reads on your opponent. If he is capable of open limping (big gap between VPIP and PFR) I would resteal a lot because of the enormous fold equity.

      If open limping is not part of his normal play (f.e a 18/16 player isn't open limping at all), or my hand isn't good enough for a resteal, I would simply check and hope for two pair or better. If I hit two pair or better I will try to bring it in. If not I can simply fold on his bet. I wouldn't bluff in most cases since the pot isn't really worth the investment.

      I hope I was able to help you.

      If you have further questions feel free to ask!

    • genNNnious
      Joined: 13.07.2010 Posts: 43
      if you saw guys usually raising in the same positions and now limp usually means strong hand. but these cases are only when the blinds are high and there is usually ante. in starting levels of tournament i prefer to play slow also good starting hands.
      if he is limping with bad hands all the time i would prefer go all in with less then 12 BB (usually, but it really depends of situation. and if you have more BBs i prefer reraise him small, usually the player like this will call with bad hand which is bad and post flop play must be profitaby. If he raises small usually have a monster.
      i would also make these decisions on prize structure.
    • feursturm
      Joined: 25.04.2011 Posts: 31
      Go with Asaban as this is the best advice you can get,( geNNious and Cagey are also correct in what they replied)..either flat call and hope to flop 2 pair or better( if in the BB) or 3 bet the guy(if in the SB, as it forces the BB to fold if he doesn't have a hand).. if he has limped he will shove over you if he has a monster pre flop, then it's an easy fold, or go bust with top pair if you flop well having flatted..I have found this out from experience!!..good luck in the future :)