[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL50 AQo squeeze

    • duder1n0
      duder1n0
      Black
      Joined: 07.07.2009 Posts: 5,328
      Prima, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

      SB: $114.40 (228.8 bb)
      Hero (BB): $50 (100 bb)
      UTG: $17.75 (35.5 bb)
      MP: $15 (30 bb)
      CO: $50 (100 bb)
      BTN: $60.32 (120.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BB with A Q
      3 folds, BTN raises to $1.25, SB calls $1, Hero raises to $5.50, BTN calls $4.25, SB folds

      Flop: ($12.25) 2 2 6 (2 players)
      Hero bets $6, BTN calls $6

      Turn: ($24.25) 6 (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $13, Hero folds


      Anon table.

      BTN reg, SB fish, small samples.
      Ch/fold flop? I thought I can cbet having some equity with overs + A. All he could fold are mostly worse hands (worse Ax, KQ/QJs/JTs/etc), but I cant really ch/call, and checking means giving up the hand.
      Or his range is too PP-heavy, so giving up on the flop would be better?
  • 9 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello pcfmcc02,

      Without dynamics I'd Check/Fold the flop rather than CB it, especially just CB once doesn't really work out cause we can very likely get floated here. The 6 didn't change much cause his calling range or floating range is anyways towards PPs.

      Best Regards.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      I don't see why check/fold is better than barreling... We look really strong and we have a very profitable turnbet. I wouldn't tripple barrel though cause his range MIGHT contain KK+ cause he wants the fish in the pot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      I don't see why check/fold is better than barreling... We look really strong and we have a very profitable turnbet. I wouldn't tripple barrel though cause his range MIGHT contain KK+ cause he wants the fish in the pot.
      So, explain me why is barreling better here, I am listening and not Check/Folding flop. :)
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      I don't see why check/fold is better than barreling... We look really strong and we have a very profitable turnbet. I wouldn't tripple barrel though cause his range MIGHT contain KK+ cause he wants the fish in the pot.
      So, explain me why is barreling better here, I am listening and not Check/Folding flop. :)
      I'll give it a try :P

      BTN is a reg as pcf said so we can assume that BTN is capable of folding marginal hands like TT on the turn. We 3bet preflop with a fish in the pot -> Valuehands. + We barrel flop + We barrel turn => Nuts. If the guy is a reg I believe he will instafold TT/JJ and we're not even talking about floats or lower PP's which he can call the flop with. And my last point, we have As as BDFD and if he calls the flop the Q and A can even be live.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      Originally posted by veriz
      Originally posted by Farmarchist
      I don't see why check/fold is better than barreling... We look really strong and we have a very profitable turnbet. I wouldn't tripple barrel though cause his range MIGHT contain KK+ cause he wants the fish in the pot.
      So, explain me why is barreling better here, I am listening and not Check/Folding flop. :)
      I'll give it a try :P

      BTN is a reg as pcf said so we can assume that BTN is capable of folding marginal hands like TT on the turn. We 3bet preflop with a fish in the pot -> Valuehands. + We barrel flop + We barrel turn => Nuts. If the guy is a reg I believe he will instafold TT/JJ and we're not even talking about floats or lower PP's which he can call the flop with. And my last point, we have As as BDFD and if he calls the flop the Q and A can even be live.
      I still don't see any good reason cause clearly it has to be done with the equities here not that you expect the villain to fold all hands. :) Clearly this spot we barrel all the range and included all the Ax hands so villain has easy call-down with any PP and even river. Nor you didn't mention anything about your river play which makes you rather losing money in long run here.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      I still don't see any good reason cause clearly it has to be done with the equities here not that you expect the villain to fold all hands.


      What do you mean with this? :rolleyes:

      Clearly this spot we barrel all the range and included all the Ax hands so villain has easy call-down with any PP and even river.


      Is that so? I see many players folding with PP's on the turn (not fish ofcourse) and obv they'll fold floats. I wouldn't call it an easy calldown... Why would you keep on bluffcatching the turn vs an unknown with TT? It looks like spewmuch...

      Nor you didn't mention anything about your river play which makes you rather losing money in long run here.


      My Rplan is check/fold. Why? Cause I think most of his range folds the turn, besides this he can hold KK+ and has an easy rivercall. So I think 2 barrels is enough and 3 barrels is spew.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      What do you mean with this?

      It means that you didn't even point out what kind of range you expect the villain to be calling 3bets/floating flop etc. :) You can't estimate the fold equity either randomly vs unknown.

      Is that so? I see many players folding with PP's on the turn (not fish ofcourse) and obv they'll fold floats. I wouldn't call it an easy calldown... Why would you keep on bluffcatching the turn vs an unknown with TT? It looks like spewmuch...

      How can you see if they fold their PPs if they fold a hand? They usually muck it, at least I haven't yet seen any hand when it's folded.

      Cause clearly our squeezing range is also pretty wide there and we don't hit that much on a flop. Almost always CBetting the flop with Ace high, even K high and so on range.

      My Rplan is check/fold. Why? Cause I think most of his range folds the turn, besides this he can hold KK+ and has an easy rivercall. So I think 2 barrels is enough and 3 barrels is spew.

      Exactly, that's why it's again a leak, I would have so easy play against you cause I expect to always give up on the river without having strong range, betting with strong range. Once I see that you are hardly exploited and even on those players on NL50. Shouldn't start barreling in first place if you don't have the plan to 3barrel to get rid of those hands what you mentioned.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Just a few more things :P (I'm sorry).

      It means that you didn't even point out what kind of range you expect the villain to be calling 3bets/floating flop etc. You can't estimate the fold equity either randomly vs unknown.


      Well that's true... So I'll point it out know. Though it isn't that easy to do vs someone we don't know super good. Because there is a fish in SB we can assume he will call the 3bet somewhat wider than normal so his range can certainly contain all 9Ts+ connectors and QTs+ gappers. We don't know if he is a good reg so we should give him credit for flatting AJ and AQ. Besides this he has PP's like 99-JJ and sometimes a flats monsters to trap + keep the fish in the pot. Do you agree here?

      As you see the range is pretty wide and combowise there are a lot of non pair hands.


      How can you see if they fold their PPs if they fold a hand? They usually muck it, at least I haven't yet seen any hand when it's folded.


      Well, you have a point there but I think I Would have seen a lot more calldowns with PP's if they wouldn't fold. I don't see people showing PP's after calling 2 barrels in 3bet pots regularly... Only regfishes may do that or regs where we have history with.


      Cause clearly our squeezing range is also pretty wide there and we don't hit that much on a flop. Almost always CBetting the flop with Ace high, even K high and so on range.


      I agree with that statement but isn't this another argument why 2nd barreling can be profitable? If he knows this he certainly will have a wide floating range so we can make a lot of those floats fold on the turn.


      Exactly, that's why it's again a leak, I would have so easy play against you cause I expect to always give up on the river without having strong range, betting with strong range. Once I see that you are hardly exploited and even on those players on NL50. Shouldn't start barreling in first place if you don't have the plan to 3barrel to get rid of those hands what you mentioned.


      Well if barreling is a leak then what to say about check/folding the flop? Non-paired hands will be a huge part of our 3betting range so if BTN calls we almost always check/fold this flop. Does seem like a leak also to me, than the guy may just float preflop and expect us to check/fold very often.


      I did my best here sir :P . I hope you don't see this as criticism or something. I just hope you can correct the flaws in my reasoning (or in yours, you never know :P )
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Well that's true... So I'll point it out know. Though it isn't that easy to do vs someone we don't know super good. Because there is a fish in SB we can assume he will call the 3bet somewhat wider than normal so his range can certainly contain all 9Ts+ connectors and QTs+ gappers. We don't know if he is a good reg so we should give him credit for flatting AJ and AQ. Besides this he has PP's like 99-JJ and sometimes a flats monsters to trap + keep the fish in the pot. Do you agree here?

      Giving him such a wide range is way too optimistic, if you really do call him down that loose then you should definitely look into your game. Clearly can't do it profitable and nor we can't just some random unknown calling that wide. How do you even know that he knows that SB is a fish?

      Well, you have a point there but I think I Would have seen a lot more calldowns with PP's if they wouldn't fold. I don't see people showing PP's after calling 2 barrels in 3bet pots regularly... Only regfishes may do that or regs where we have history with.

      Why would you put squeezer always only on the nuts? Way too nitty approach. Folding PPs almost always to 2nd barrels is also hardly exploitable even on those stakes as the same leak as you had with not 2nd barreling enough.

      I agree with that statement but isn't this another argument why 2nd barreling can be profitable? If he knows this he certainly will have a wide floating range so we can make a lot of those floats fold on the turn.

      Who said 2nd barreling can't be profitable? As always in poker:


      Many factors may force us to 2barrel, some may force us to Check/Fold right on the flop. In poker it always depends how we see the player and how he sees us.

      Well if barreling is a leak then what to say about check/folding the flop? Non-paired hands will be a huge part of our 3betting range so if BTN calls we almost always check/fold this flop. Does seem like a leak also to me, than the guy may just float preflop and expect us to check/fold very often.

      :facepalm: Can't even comment on that. You seem to see only 1 and only line in poker but it's not true and never will be true. It always will be: