[NL20-NL50] NL 20 FR \ Fold Top Pair?

    • wutes
      wutes
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2008 Posts: 421
      Titan No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10/$0.20 (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

      MP1 ($3.70)
      MP2 ($25.45)
      MP3 ($19.20) ___ (Hero)
      CO ($4.00)
      BTN ($20.99)
      SB ($21.08)
      BB ($30.91)
      UTG ($19.49)
      UTG+1 ($19.88)
      UTG+2 ($21.81)

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A:club: , J:spade:
      2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.20, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20, 2 folds, SB calls $0.10, BB checks,

      Flop: 9:club: , A:heart: , 5:club: ( $0.8 )
      SB bets $0.60, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60,

      Turn: Q:club: ( $2 )
      SB bets $1.80, Hero calls $1.80,

      River: K:club: ( $5.6 )
      SB bets $3.80, Hero raises to 8.0$, SB raises to 22.28$, Hero raises All-In $16.6,

      Final Pot: $39.68



      Should I have folded my top pair earlier in the hand ?
      On the flop I cant really fold top pair (maybe reraise?) and on the turn I thought that if I hit my flushdraw I would win his entire stack, therefore I called.

      Was this badly played or somehow reasonable?
  • 7 replies
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Fold or Raise PF. Limping AJ is a no no in my eyes.

      As played, You have hit top pair on the flop, so why play AJ if your not willing to raise when you hit? The board is connected so you have to raise IMO.


      An answer to your question, is that it was badly played IMO. Easily avoidable if you raise or fold preflop.
    • wutes
      wutes
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2008 Posts: 421
      I agree that raising or folding PF would have been the better play but do you think reraising on the flop would have changed the final outcome?

      Assuming he would have called the reraise, then probably raised the turn, should I have folded then with the nutflushdraw and the possibility of winning his entire stack?
    • burningzeus
      burningzeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2007 Posts: 480
      Since this is not SSS i think i would have raised Preflop
      After the Raise i think u have to cb the Flop cause this is not a bad flop for hero.
      I think i would also 2nd-barrel the turn.

      If i get a Raise i think my play would depend simply on odds.
      River should be easy since now we hit the nut-flush

      It´s just bad luck we´re against the Str8-Flush, so what?

      Btw, next time u should hide the results ... otherwise everyone´s a genius all of a sudden :-)
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      preflop as it's already discussed you should raise or fold.

      As played: On the flop I just call - I don't want to push out weaker hands and go for pot control. If he has a better A, raising doesn't make sense. If he has a weaker A or a bluff, we want to let him bluff.
    • burningzeus
      burningzeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2007 Posts: 480
      Off-Topic but Just out of curiosity: Are u sure a weaker Ace would always fold if we raise on the flop? I mean wouldn´t we sometimes make the same Play with a drawing Hand? ... I think i would

      And if so, why would he call Preflop if he might think his kicker is not good if he hits his ace
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      If he doesn't call your preflop raise, all the better. You win his money without a fight.
    • burningzeus
      burningzeus
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2007 Posts: 480
      If we raise Preflop, then yeah, agreed

      ---------------------------------------

      But as played, what if we raise the flop?
      Does he or does he not always fold an Ace. Shouldn´t he call if he thinks his Top-Pair is good against our draw?

      Or maybe i should ask this way. Why should he fold weak Aces but call strong Aces if he can´t be sure about our hand?
      And we can´t be sure he´s on an ace. Maybe he´s got the draw and is playing it aggressive

      I get the advantages of pot-control since hands like A/K will never fold.

      But what about a Raise. I actually agree with cannell that if we don´t raise after we hit Top-Pair we should fold preflop a hand like A/J
      And if i think i can get a draw out of the hand (calling would give him the correct odds since i cannot always fold to another club on the turn) why shouldn´t i raise

      The Big Advantage for me here is the Information. If a third club comes, i don´t expect an Ace to bet out again after getting raised.

      If he bets out again, i can assume that he was betting out on a draw and now completed it.

      I´m not saying pot-control isn´t fine but asking if u guys think raising on the flop might be an alternative?