[NL20-NL50] [SH] nl50 possible turn bluff spot

    • meepwn
      meepwn
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2011 Posts: 1,411
      0|Fast Poker Game #4-12101619414: Table Helsinki (6 max) - 0.25/0.50 - NL Hold'Em - 22:19:28 2012/10/16
      1|Seat 1: Atan1000 (€122.89)
      2|Seat 2: meepwn53 (€44.90)
      3|Seat 3: PoketFlush (€12.54) SB
      4|Seat 4: lolufish (€50.17) BB
      5|Seat 5: bakfejes (€19.00)
      6|Seat 6: Ace1 (€32.59)
      7|PoketFlush posts the small blind, €0.25
      8|lolufish posts the big blind, €0.50
      9|meepwn53 has the button

      10|*** Hole cards ***
      15|Dealt to meepwn53 [A :spade: T :spade:]
      17|bakfejes folds
      18|Ace1 folds
      19|Atan1000 folds
      20|meepwn53 raises to €1.25
      21|PoketFlush folds
      22|lolufish raises to €4.00
      23|meepwn53 calls €2.75

      24|*** Flop *** [5 :club: 2 :spade: 3 :club:] €8,25 pot
      25|lolufish bets €4.12
      26|meepwn53 calls €4.12


      27|*** Turn *** [5 :club: 2 :spade: 3 :club:] [K :club:] €16,49 pot
      28|lolufish bets €10.24
      29|meepwn53 ..?

      Sorry for the formatting, there is no converter for this software, I tried to make it more readable. Fast-fold tables, 40-80bb buy-in btw.

      The guy has been very aggresive against me, with a lot of 3bets, floats and check/raises. No stats, unfortunately.

      Preflop call or fold?
      Flop good enough to float?

      And now on the turn, I think that he still has a very decent amount of bluffs in his range and some weak value hands, and he should fold out basically everything except AA, AK, KK, a small set (does he have 22,33,55 in his 3bet range??), or a flush with something like Q :club: J :club: or A :club: J :club: . The bad thing is that I can't represent much, too.

      If i assume he is got here, and is folding with {88 through QQ, AQ with no flush, AJ with no flush, KJs (?)}

      and is calling with {AA, AK, KK, 55, Q :club: J :club: , A :club: J :club: , A :club: Q :club: }, it looks like decently profitable bluff (21 combos call, 41 fold), but there are a tonne of hands excluded from both ranges.
  • 11 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello meepwn,

      Even if you float the flop then this turn is one of the worst for you. You can never play back here cause raising wouldn't make sense nor floating. He could easily just ship the river and you ain't able to Call it down.

      Best Regards.
    • meepwn
      meepwn
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2011 Posts: 1,411
      dont float the flop


      got it

      cause raising wouldn't make sense


      can you elaborate a little more? Did i mess up my ranges, or did I miss something big?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by meepwn
      dont float the flop


      got it

      cause raising wouldn't make sense


      can you elaborate a little more? Did i mess up my ranges, or did I miss something big?
      Depends a lot on the opponent here either to float or not, didn't say it's impossible. But as long you didn't mentioned anything reasonable it's going to be difficult for you whilst you rather little understanding what's the reason for floating here.

      You can't raise the turn cause you would never-ever do that with flush, that's what I mean, ranges are correct or not, rather that depends against what opponent we are against.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      You can't raise the turn cause you would never-ever do that with flush


      Would protection not be an issue with a non-nut flush here, e.g. Tc9c, on the turn? Is keeping the opponent's range wide + not scaring him away more important?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      You can't raise the turn cause you would never-ever do that with flush


      Would protection not be an issue with a non-nut flush here, e.g. Tc9c, on the turn? Is keeping the opponent's range wide + not scaring him away more important?
      Not really, from what worse you get called? :)
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Would be a pitty seeing another club or a board-pairing card on the river. Whereas on the turn we probably get called by all sets, Acx combos and sometimes even weaker flushes.

      Although calling instead of raising seems to have a lot of advantages as well. I am just really scared of a bad river card.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Would be a pitty seeing another club or a board-pairing card on the river. Whereas on the turn we probably get called by all sets, Acx combos and sometimes even weaker flushes.

      Although calling instead of raising seems to have a lot of advantages as well. I am just really scared of a bad river card.
      And I am asking you again, how many worse hands calling if you raising the turn? :P Even if a bad card comes which isn't like every 2nd card you just don't get called from worse on the turn, very capped range calls which goes mainly for implied odds.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I suppose that if the turn was not K:club: and was something like 9:club: instead, it wouldn't change much in the sense that our raise would still be called by a rather capped range and thus we should keep his range wide in order to be able to gain more value on the river?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      I suppose that if the turn was not K:club: and was something like 9:club: instead, it wouldn't change much in the sense that our raise would still be called by a rather capped range and thus we should keep his range wide in order to be able to gain more value on the river?
      How many worse hands calling us on the turn when we raising? You didn't answer my question. Doesn't matter what kind of comes.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      How many worse hands calling us on the turn when we raising? You didn't answer my question.


      Most likely all the sets for their implied odds and some Acx combo draws at best. So yeah, I guess raising is not the best play with a made flush on the turn in a 3Bet pot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      How many worse hands calling us on the turn when we raising? You didn't answer my question.


      Most likely all the sets for their implied odds and some Acx combo draws at best. So yeah, I guess raising is not the best play with a made flush on the turn in a 3Bet pot.
      There might be not that many sets even in his range. :) Nor of course A clearly doesn't get the implied odds for just 1card FD. :(