[NL2-NL10] QQ NL25, tried to trap but failed

    • tehChipDonk
      tehChipDonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 173
      0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.49 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BB with Q:club: , Q:diamond:
      3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.85, CO raises to $1.45, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.20, MP3 calls $0.60.

      Flop: ($4.45) 4:heart: , 3:diamond: , 2:heart: (3 players)
      Hero checks, MP3 bets $2.25, CO calls $2.25, Hero raises to $8.15 (All-In), MP3 calls $5.90, CO folds.

      Turn: ($23.00) 2:spade:
      River: ($23.00) A:heart:


      Final Pot: $23.00

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows two pairs, queens and deuces (Qc Qd)
      MP3 shows two pairs, aces and threes (As 3s)

      MP3 wins with two pairs, aces and threes (As 3s)

      definitely a bad call preflop, i was putting that dude on KK or AA with the min re-raise, had absolutely no read on him. but was a fold alright on the flop? or did i leave him with too many outs on the flop? 10 outs i think...
  • 9 replies
    • vladnz
      vladnz
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2007 Posts: 1,355
      you have to fold QQ after more then one raise was made , if you don't wanna fold you should shove pre-flop , as played shove the flop 1st in don't c/r
    • DeKuip
      DeKuip
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 10,966
      Fold preflop because QQ is no hand to 4bet with. You might push if you have any reads on them raising ATC for example.

      You must bet on the flop, somewhere around $3.50, but I think the experts will say push flop :)
    • 098799
      098799
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      Hello tehChipDonk,

      it was like after a duoble up, am I right? If not, you're definitely having too much money in your stack...

      I'd also 4bet preflop, possibly something like $4, and instantly push flop. No need to call or go for a check/raise here (on drawy board!).

      On the flop fold is out of question I think. You shouldn't be against something better than a gutshot so you should just give him bad odds on calling.
    • DeKuip
      DeKuip
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 10,966
      Why is 4betting possible in this situation preflop?
      With a normal 20BB stack it would be a fold, is the stack size the difference?
    • 098799
      098799
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.07.2007 Posts: 1,245
      QQ is never a fold ;) . Especially after such a minraise and unknown oponents on NL25. It is, however a fold after 3bet from 8/5 rock ;) .
    • DeKuip
      DeKuip
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 10,966
      The SHC says "QQ-JJ Raise/Reraise"
      And that's what people already did, raise and reraise, your turn to 4bet now, right?

      Only AA-KK say RAISE, which means always raise, no matter how many raises before you.

      At least, that's what one of the coaches told me :)
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      with 20bb stack i would shove it against nl25 unknowns
      however, basic strategy says fold

      with 40BB stack i would either fold it or play as played
      betting is kinda donky
      you coldcall 2 raises and donk flop)
      if opponents have some thinking capabilities, you will be dead when called
    • DeKuip
      DeKuip
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 10,966
      First of all, sorry for being an pain in the ass :D

      But the SSS is made to get used to poker and get a winning strategy on the microlimits. Then why would you deviate from the basic strategy on the microlimits?

      And I'm just curious, why can you call or fold preflop with 40BB, but not push. You say as played was good and that he shouldn't donk the flop, so he'll probably have to check then. What do you do when somebody else bets, you push all-in anyway?

      If you don't wanna push preflop because you're afraid of playing against AA/KK, why would you call and check/push the flop then?
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      But the SSS is made to get used to poker and get a winning strategy on the microlimits. Then why would you deviate from the basic strategy on the microlimits?


      well :) Basic strategy is designed to be as simple as possible and profitable, at the same time. But its not optimal, obviously.
      Pushing in this spot will show profit in the longrun, we are simply ahead of their ranges most of the time.
      In fact, I wouldn't deviate form the strategy on NL 25. But knowing the other options won't hurt.

      nd I'm just curious, why can you call or fold preflop with 40BB, but not push. You say as played was good and that he shouldn't donk the flop, so he'll probably have to check then. What do you do when somebody else bets, you push all-in anyway?


      First of all, I think the correct move for nl 25 player is to fold (with 40BB stack)
      But in general, you can push here ofc, if you feel its profitable. But after a minraise it would be a huge overbet, so their calling ranges would be pretty tight. I just felt i can extract more profit by calling. But, your postflop line stronly depends on the flop texture.
      In hero's case its c/rai, obviously.

      If you don't wanna push preflop because you're afraid of playing against AA/KK, why would you call and check/push the flop then?


      well, the question itself is a bit wrong. We are playing against ranges. By c/r we can accomplis different goals, like maximizing our fold equity, getting more value from the draws and geting some deadmoney into the pot. We also give them a chance to bet a weaker range.

      First of all, sorry for being an pain in the ass

      I am always happy to answer your questions. Feel free to ask, more is better, actually ;)
      However, please use the option to mark evaluated thread.