7-stud hi starting out and BRM

  • 27 replies
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
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      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      300BB BRM is ok imo.
    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
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      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 333
      TY for your views , and how much should I join an individual session with?

      I have seen people sitting down with wildly varying amounts.
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
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      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,420
      I'm not sure it really matters, since stack size is not usually a factor in betting decisions. You can add more at any time.

      Best case is you have a hand that you would like to cap on rounds.
      You need to have that in your stack at the table at all times, or you potentially miss value with your hand.

      Anything above that is bragging :)
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
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      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Originally posted by VorpalF2F
      I'm not sure it really matters, since stack size is not usually a factor in betting decisions. You can add more at any time.

      Best case is you have a hand that you would like to cap on rounds.
      You need to have that in your stack at the table at all times, or you potentially miss value with your hand.

      Anything above that is bragging :)
      This. I play on stars and normally buy in with whatever pops up in that little box when joining the table! Never payed much attention to it because I've never 'ran out' on a betting round
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
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      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,711
      Stud 7-hi is a roller coaster ride. A million$ buy-in might not be enough. I made this last part up, but not the first part. You need a lot more than in Stud Hi/Lo or Razz. (Reason: Luck is less of a factor. Others say: Luck is more of a factor. In any case, lot's of money.)

      /Johan :f_confused:
    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
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      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 333
      This is to thank those who have enlightened me. I welcome any further views that any other more experienced players may wish to offer.
    • z0fman
      z0fman
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      Joined: 28.10.2011 Posts: 135
      20 big bets should be enough to buy in for...thats the standard afaik...also have it set up so it auto reloads ur stack
      i dont think u can bet any more than that on any given hand even if its capped at all streets
    • Glopslart
      Glopslart
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      Joined: 18.05.2008 Posts: 333
      Thanks, Zofman.

      A random further point for discussion - is it humanly possible to multitable 7-stud, whether hi or hi-lo?

      The point of the game is that, on a full table, there is so much information to process on every street from the other players' up-cards.

      Is anyone out there from PS succeeding in this?
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
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      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,420
      Originally posted by Glopslart
      A random further point for discussion - is it humanly possible to multitable 7-stud, whether hi or hi-lo?
      I would say it is humanly possible -- it is amazing what can be done after several thousand hours of practice.

      Leave me out though. I play only two 5CD tables at once, since I miss too much otherwise.

      I'm still at the one-table stage of 7-Stud, and at this point, still playing with only half a clue.
    • FeliciaLee
      FeliciaLee
      Basic
      Joined: 03.11.2012 Posts: 8
      Originally posted by Glopslart
      How many big bets should you buy in with at a 7-stud-hi table?
      It really depends on the stakes. At low stakes you can take a shot with a relatively small buy-in, and you don't need a big bankroll. In fact, it might be to your advantage. It also depends if you are playing pot-limit Stud or limit. Taking a very short roll to a PL game is a good strategy for beginning players who are first getting to know the pot-limit games. Some sites even have 1/2 cent PL Stud games.

      Felicia :)
    • FeliciaLee
      FeliciaLee
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      Joined: 03.11.2012 Posts: 8
      Originally posted by YohanN7
      Stud 7-hi is a roller coaster ride. You need a lot more than in Stud Hi/Lo or Razz.
      Usually Stud High has less variance than Stud 8. It doesn't seem like it could be that way, but it is, generally. Stud High/Low Regular, Qualifier, Double Qualifier or Declare have much lower variance. In any case, though, yeah the swings are huge in Stud High and Stud 8. Razz has a lot lower variance, for the reason you mentioned above. Also, Razz is a such a game of representation. You can lower your losses during a bad run and increase your winnings in a good run. Boards mean more in Razz than just about any other Stud game. Obviously the same is true in other Stud games, and especially Five-Card Stud. Five-Card is so rarely played anymore that it's almost not worth mentioning :/
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
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      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,711
      Usually Stud High has less variance than Stud 8. It doesn't seem like it could be that way, but it is, generally. Stud High/Low Regular, Qualifier, Double Qualifier or Declare have much lower variance.
      Not quite sure you intended to write "lower" where you wrote it. It take it that you mean that the split variants all have higher variace than straight high?

      From what I have read (e.g. Ray Zee's books, Super System), and from own experience, Stud Hi/Lo has less variance than stud high. I trust what you say, but I'm curious. How could that be the case tith a high/low split game? Many pots are split. Sure, there is the jamming phenomenon that can come up earlier in the hand than in stud high.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • FeliciaLee
      FeliciaLee
      Basic
      Joined: 03.11.2012 Posts: 8
      Originally posted by YohanN7Not quite sure you intended to write "lower" where you wrote it. It take it that you mean that the split variants all have higher variance than straight high?

      From what I have read (e.g. Ray Zee's books, Super System), and from own experience, Stud Hi/Lo has less variance than stud high.
      I just moved across the USA and my 2+2 books were falling apart anyway, so I'm waiting for Matt Sklansky to send me some replacements (being a mod has its perks, lol). So I'll defer that answer until I get the mail. I thought I remember Malmuth writing up the SD of most widely played poker variants and Stud 8 coming out slightly higher than Stud High, but I could be mistaken. I definitely know that the Stud HL with no qualifier or Declare has much less variance than Stud 8. Remember in SS when Sklansky wrote about it? Wow, those were the days.

      One of the biggest cash hands I've ever lost was at a 20/40 Stud 8 game at Foxwoods in 2004. I started with A23 spades, I believe. Caught my steel wheel card right on fourth with super live cards, and you know what happened. Brick and mortar. I was all-in by sixth, I think, and I usually play super deep in cash games, so you know the jamming by the high and low hands was terrific. I think I lost about 1k in that hand. The only thing I was thankful for was that it wasn't the 50/100 game!
    • FeliciaLee
      FeliciaLee
      Basic
      Joined: 03.11.2012 Posts: 8
      Originally posted by YohanN7Not quite sure you intended to write "lower" where you wrote it. It take it that you mean that the split variants all have higher variance than straight high?

      From what I have read (e.g. Ray Zee's books, Super System), and from own experience, Stud Hi/Lo has less variance than stud high. I trust what you say, but I'm curious. How could that be the case with a high/low split game? Many pots are split. Sure, there is the jamming phenomenon that can come up earlier in the hand than in stud high./Johan = :f_confused:
      I decided to talk to Ray. I definitely knew that in the newer craze of the 6-max game that Stud 8 had to have less SD than that Stud High. Someone did the math and came up with Stud High at 20bb/100 with Stud 8 as 18/100. Obviously not as many pots are multi-way in the 6-max and more often any low will win for low. So the variance has to be lower.

      But I think it's closer for full ring. Ray seems to think Stud High still is slightly higher, like you, but it's close. I wonder about the SD for pot-limit Stud vs. Stud 8. Feel like doing some sims?

      Felicia :)
    • madorjan
      madorjan
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      Joined: 13.11.2009 Posts: 5,561
      Hey all,

      I'd definitely think split pot games generally have less variance, if played well. I don't see a reason why this wouldn't be the same in stud games, although it's definitely much closer than like in PLO8 and PLO. If we account for players' skill level, stud8 may even be closer, however I think stddev in itself is not that relevant, more like the possible winrate/stddev ratio (or however you wanna phrase it), and I think that's definitely better for stud8.

      @Felicia: welcome to PS, I'm really glad you joined the forums, please keep posting, cause I'm really interested in your opinions. (Sadly there is not much discussion going on about stud games, but let's hope for the best.)
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
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      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 9,420
      Originally posted by madorjan
      I'd definitely think split pot games generally have less variance, if played well.
      I'm hesitant about split pot games.
      I'm certain that there is less variance overall, but the rake factor is much higher -- not quite double, but definitely higher. Several times I've noticed that I "won" half the pot, and lost money overall.

      This much less problem in PLO H/L, because there is usually sufficient dead money in the pot, but stud games have less dead money usually.
    • YohanN7
      YohanN7
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      Joined: 15.06.2009 Posts: 4,711
      Experience from Pot Limit Stud High anyone? It sure sounds brutal.

      /Johan = :f_confused:
    • madorjan
      madorjan
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      Joined: 13.11.2009 Posts: 5,561
      @Vorpal: You have a point, but I think that my only be considered in microstakes games. Up there, where is a rakecap that is hit more frequently, the rake will be less of a problem. Also, I don't think it has that big of an effect that you imagine, just given that with the same potsize you rake just as much as in Stud having 50% equity. (Remember, the one who rakes is always the winner of the pot, the loser will get no more or less than in a rake-free environment.) So the only problem is, that the average potsize is higher, therefore the winner suffers a little bit more - but I don't think it will be enough to skyrocket the variance and especially the variance:winrate ratio.

      @Yohan: I once tried it for like 10 hands. It is brutal. Pretty big foldfest on 3rd, then you're basically committed on 4th or 5th (unless superdeep).
    • FeliciaLee
      FeliciaLee
      Basic
      Joined: 03.11.2012 Posts: 8
      Originally posted by madorjan
      I'd definitely think split pot games generally have less variance, if played well. I don't see a reason why this wouldn't be the same in stud games, although it's definitely much closer than like in PLO8 and PLO. If we account for players' skill level, stud8 may even be closer, however I think stddev in itself is not that relevant, more like the possible winrate/stddev ratio (or however you wanna phrase it), and I think that's definitely better for stud8.
      Yeah, I'd say you have to be correct. Plus lows get there much more often in Stud 8 than O8.

      @Felicia: welcome to PS, I'm really glad you joined the forums, please keep posting, cause I'm really interested in your opinions. (Sadly there is not much discussion going on about stud games, but let's hope for the best.)
      Thanks. Yeah, I noticed the lack of postings. I was going to try to get it revved up, but it doesn't seem like it worked. I volunteered to be a Stud coach, but the criteria (mostly regarding instructional videos) was so heinous, I simply gave up, lol.
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