[NL2-NL10] NL10 - big draw

    • Talic
      Talic
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 1,851
      0,05/0,1 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.52 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is BU with 4:heart: , K:heart:
      UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0,10, 4 folds, Hero calls $0,10, SB raises to $0,40, 2 folds, Hero calls $0,30.

      Flop: ($1,00) A:heart: , 5:spade: , 3:heart: (2 players)
      SB bets $1,00, Hero raises to $2,00, SB raises to $12,41 (All-In), Hero raises to $7,23 (All-In).

      Turn: ($20,64) 3:spade:
      River: ($20,64) 9:diamond:


      Final Pot: $20,64

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows a pair of threes (4h Kh)
      SB shows two pairs, aces and threes (Ac Ks)

      SB wins with two pairs, aces and threes (Ac Ks)

      dont tell me fold preflop, Sb raise mean strengh so I tryed hit exactly this kind of board
  • 10 replies
    • aciddrop
      aciddrop
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2006 Posts: 1,519
      [quote][i]Originally posted by Talic

      dont tell me fold preflop, Sb raise mean strengh so I tryed hit exactly this kind of board[/quote]Well, first, fold preflop. You can't try to hit some kind of board, you have no control over that. This kind of play will cost you lots of BBs. Your winrate will be in the toilet.

      On the flop you have a monster draw, or at least very strong with FD and GSSD. 12 outs, meaning you will improve about half the time by the river. Since you are in there, don't minraise. Either raise to $3 minimum and call the shove, or directly shove to maximise F/E.

      But seriously, DON'T play this way preflop. Don't limp with any two suited, and never call the raise after the first mistake.
    • Talic
      Talic
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 1,851
      It doesnt make sense... raise from blind = strenght = I can extract lot of money from the oponent..lets say he had AA/KK/AK

      I can hit flush draw, I dont know maybe about 12-15% of the time on flop, then call the flop bet and complete flush in 18% of the time. Turn bet will be probably so big so if I havent hit I'll have to fold. But if I hit the turn I can almost surely extract all money from him.
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      I would love to play on your table, if you think like that.

      So so wrong on so many levels.
    • Talic
      Talic
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 1,851
      Originally posted by cannell555
      I would love to play on your table, if you think like that.

      So so wrong on so many levels.
      so you're tight like nit, right? How many people than pay you off when you raise your 8% of hands? in my opinion is LAG more profitable so I'm trying to find how play LAG on microlimits
    • Petrificus
      Petrificus
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.02.2008 Posts: 394
      I prefer LAG, too, but that doesn't mean that you have to play hands like K4s. The only chance to win with that hand is in general a flush, and then you can't even be sure to hold the best hand in most of the times.
      I think K9s+ might be okay to raise in that situation, since you have additional chances to hit a straight using both of your cards(playing SH it would be fine, i think; not sure about FR), but a call doesn't make any sense, imo, cause you can't take the pot down on the flop; you can't represent a strong hand and often play against 3 opponents. (And probably he would have reraised you anyway and then you had to fold.)
      So to summarize. I would have folded it, even playing SH.
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      you should only try to extract money from worse hands. :)
      in fact, i think you used that expression incorrectly. what you probably mean would usually be expressed by saying 'I have very good implied odds'. the problem is that you can never get implied odds that are good enough to make a call with K4s profitable :)
    • Talic
      Talic
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.01.2008 Posts: 1,851
      Originally posted by Kruppe
      you should only try to extract money from worse hands. :)
      in fact, i think you used that expression incorrectly. what you probably mean would usually be expressed by saying 'I have very good implied odds'. the problem is that you can never get implied odds that are good enough to make a call with K4s profitable :)
      sure you can, if your oponent will go all-in almost no matter what the board will be.

      K4s against JJ+,AQs+ and AKo is 26,5:73,4.

      Remebrer, always is more profitable extract money from oponent with better hand (preflop lets say)

      If you have to pay 3BB and you know that on the flop/turn you can another 97BB win..
    • Petrificus
      Petrificus
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.02.2008 Posts: 394
      ...
      sure you can, if your oponent will go all-in almost no matter what the board will be.


      I see a problem there, and that is the "if": Most opponent won't go all in on any board.

      Remebrer, always is more profitable extract money from oponent with better hand (preflop lets say)


      Hm, not sure if i understand this right. Do you mean it is easier to extract money from a player with a better hand?

      Sure, cause he is in front... :tongue: (and extracting money from a player with a better hand is not profitable, since you don't win)

      Anyway, the problem is that you don't have the money for sure on the flop or turn, but have to pay a lot for seeing those cards in general, and in most of the cases the river also. So you have to pay often a lot and win only a few times a lot
      ---> -EV
      Playing A4s ,e.g. you have more outs. Your ace might be good and you are drawing to the nutflush (--> no discounted odds).
      But against a raise/reraise preflop it is also always a fold, imo.

      Well but you didn't want us to say sth. about your preflop game. But i must say that i'm not sure if your all in is ok in that spot. If we think with which hands he would push we find imo: AKo+, AA, AQo+ (perhaps), any two pair with an ace or any set. The equilator gives me an probability from about 42%, so an all in is actually -EV
    • cannell555
      cannell555
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.03.2008 Posts: 2,410
      Very funny!!
    • Thorsten77
      Thorsten77
      Black
      Joined: 28.05.2006 Posts: 12,896
      You have 12 clean Outs; hence when going all-in on the flop you are never a big dog (against the worst case, a set, you have good equity). Reraise flop (you have for a fold of an Ax hand) and call a shove. However, you should raise more, as you want a fold, not a call by TP like hands.