SC's passive preflop play SH

    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Hi all,

      This is something that I have been wondering for a while now:

      I used to play FR and I am trying to make the switch to SH. I was wondering whether we should make any adjustments to the way we play SC's FR vs SH.

      In FR it is usually profitable to call the vast majority of SC's when the action is limped around in front of us or there is a small raise and there are multiple callers. This means we get to see a cheap flop in a MWP and try to hit well postflop and stack off for a small investment.

      However, in SH our implied odds are usually not as high as FR because people play a much wider range of hands. This would suggest that a more aggressive approach would be required (similar to our strategy with small PP's preflop for SH).

      What I want to know is whether or not such passive lines preflop for SC's are still profitable when playing SH? Can we still call raises IP? If so can we call IP with good implieds or only in MWP's IP? Can we still over limp IP?

      Cheers
  • 3 replies
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      Well it depends. In general being OOP(SB,BB) its -EV to call SC preflop against 1 player so its either 3bet or fold. If there are multiple players you can still flat for value(or 3bet if you think thats better) The loser ranges don't really effect this because even if their ranges pre are loser their stackoff ranges on the flop are loser as well. And if they're not then you got a shitload of fold equity and just bluff raise when you miss.

      Ip you can always call with SC if you think you have an edge on your opponent. If your op is the best reg on your limit then go ahead and fold it, if its a fish then its always a call.

      Vs limpers it also depends on their limp/fold frequency. If some fish always limp/calls then isolating and bloating a pot with 5high can't be the optimal play so you can still limp behind. If he just want to see cheap flops and limp/folds a lot then go ahead and raise it up.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      ah cool. You see I was under the impression that I should not be limping in SH full stop. As a result I have only been playing SC's as the PFA'r where it makes sense to do so (i.e. I think I have some FE postflop). This "raise/fold" mentality has meant that If I don't think I have any FE postflop I am just folding and NEVER limping behind even IP in a MWP for example.

      I am looking forward to making this change and incorporating it into my game :f_thumbsup:

      One more question. Lets say a tight UTG reg opens for 4bb UTG, we are on the BU. We expect his range to be quite strong. If we think we have good implieds and don't think we will be squeezed off our hand very often, would you call for implieds? Similiar to the call 20/set mining idea.

      I play NL4SH if that helps. I guess lines / thoughts might be different at different limits.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      I would not call just to hit 2pair or better, it doesnt happen often enough. SC aren't the same as PP and you will flop weakish holdings like 1pair thats going to be the best hand often enough to call 1 or 2 streets and has 5 outs to improve, gutters weak FD and oseds that your going to lose more money with postflop and on top of that sometimes your going to hit your flush/strait with 78s and be overflushed or against against KQ for a better strait.

      Basically your going to flop hands that are going to be good enough to call 1 or 2 streets with which just forces you to put more money in bad postflop vs a guy whose going to c-bet his AA and then c/c c/c turn and river and your just burning money while you don't stack him the few times you do hit.

      The things to look for when making those calls preflop is his postflop leaks. Basically how often he folds vs raise to see if you can bluff him that way, theres a check/fold stat in hm2 and some players C/F 95% of the time when they don't c-bet. That means if he c-bet 65% then im winning the pot on the flop 30% of the time since im autobetting when he checks since his almost always folding.

      You also have to take your image into consideration since if your raising 35% of the time then his not going to fold vs your raise at the same frequency as if you would be raising only 10% of the time.

      As a general rule, the less he makes it preflop the more often you call and the weaker the player the more often you call(it doesn't have to be a bad player, you just have to know about a leak that you can exploit)