# Faced preflop 3bet = true - I am loosing lot of money

• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
I have 1167 situations of NL20 when filtering VPIP = true and Faced preflop 3bet = true.

And over those situations I have lost 500\$.

Probably it is not possible to play profitably, because they often still have not enough bluffs but have strong range. But then what would be normal to loose?
• 22 replies
• Bronze
Joined: 17.01.2011
i dunno, lol

some more interesting filters though are "called 3bet" and "4bet preflop", also it's more interesting to filter out premium hands because those are ez
• Silver
Joined: 30.06.2011
where is this graph from
• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
checked my fold to 3bet and at NL20 it is 78.7, call vs 3bet is 13.1. So I fold too much. So should start 4bet bluffing more?
• Black
Joined: 21.01.2010
Assuming your standard open is to 3x then you lose 3bb everytime you fold vs a 3bet. Over your sample in \$ value should you folded every time you'd lose 700\$(losing 20c a pot) Now with your defending you have cut down your loses by 200\$( thats included all the times you had your premium hands and stacked them)

My loss rate when facing a 3bet is -59bb/100 which means i lose 0.59bb per hand when im facing a 3bet instead of losing 3bb should i folded. By the same calculation you are losing -2.1bb per hand when your facing a 3bet which means your doing something wrong. It could be just folding 2 many times or you could be overdefending and getting into tough spots postflop. You might not be 4betting enough(which in turn effects your KK,AA to not get paid off) It could be a bunch of reasons why your losing way to much money in this spot. You should really go into the specific spots to see how your doing instead of just running 1 filter.
• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
Called preflop 3bet has some loss - 42\$ over 153 hands. I revieder those hands where I lost, yeah made some mistakes.

Filter:
vpip = true
faced preflop 3bet = true
Called preflop 3bet = false
folded to preflop 3bet = false

it means its 4bet - 96 hands, winning 130 \$

Over your sample in \$ value should you folded every time you'd lose 700\$(losing 20c a pot)

You mean "loosing 60c a pot" I guess - for the readers who could not get this. 1167 * 0.6 = 700.
• Black
Joined: 21.01.2010
Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
Called preflop 3bet has some loss - 42\$ over 153 hands. I revieder those hands where I lost, yeah made some mistakes.

Called preflop 3bet = false
folded to preflop 3bet = false

it means its 4bet - 96 hands, winning 130 \$

Over your sample in \$ value should you folded every time you'd lose 700\$(losing 20c a pot)

You mean "loosing 60c a pot" I guess - for the readers who could not get this. 1167 * 0.6 = 700.
Yeah its 60c(3bb) i misstyped. Add another filter and filter out QQ+AK to see how your 4bet bluffs are doing. Obv your going to win by 4betting if you only do it with AA.
• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
Add another filter and filter out QQ+AK to see how your 4bet bluffs are doing. Obv your going to win by 4betting if you only do it with AA.

Filtered. Its 50 hands and the profit is 44\$.
• Black
Joined: 21.01.2010
Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
Add another filter and filter out QQ+AK to see how your 4bet bluffs are doing. Obv your going to win by 4betting if you only do it with AA.

Filtered. Its 50 hands and the profit is 44\$.
Well this means that your 4bets are getting a lot of credit since your winning 4.4bb per hand when ever you decide to 4bet bluff. If you would have folded you would lose -3bb per hand so that means your making a whopping 7.4bb everytime you decide to 4bet bluff instead of fold.

This means you should be 4betting way more since your getting a ton of credit, but also don't go to many crazy since ppl will adapt once your 4bet gets over 3%.
• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
but also don't go to many crazy since ppl will adapt once your 4bet gets over 3%.

You mean 4bet range, not 4bet freq, right? \$bet freq is higher than 3% already as I calculated.

But thats interesting info. From the videos they say don't 4bet too much and so on, maybe I am trying too hard to do what they say

Edit: btw I checked 4bet spots where I win and here is:

AQ vs AK hand allin I sucked out and won almost whole stack
AJ hand vs 2 fish allin preflop - won 24 \$
JJ vs A8 - profit 18 \$
• Bronze
Joined: 10.06.2012
what's the breakdown per position?
• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
what's the breakdown per position?

Filter:
nl20
exclude QQ+, AK
vpip = true
faced preflop 3bet = true

BTW if they 3bet too light I start minraiseing from button. And they know that I am not minraiseing with KK so when I start minraise/4bet they might also not give credit.
• Bronze
Joined: 19.05.2010
Start minraising w/ all your range.
Call IP only with dominating hands vs aggro postflop regs: A8s+, KQ+, KJs. maybe QJs, 88-99
OOP keep it simply: 4bet/fold or 4bet/jam
Start calling more postflop with TP hands and give up earlier streets with the weaker part of your range
Start building a 4bet/call AI range depending of reg/dynamic: AJs+,AQ+, 99+.
• Silver
Joined: 05.02.2012
but i think it also depends on how wide you are opening and how often you are getting 3bet. if you are stealing alot and it works it might not be a mistake to lose money when you get 3bet because of the money you win when you steal.

at the moment i am also trying to look at how to defend against 3bets.
i would kind of like to know how wide people are opening and how often they are faced a 3bet.

i think that would also give an idea on how much to defend

my avarage RFI from all positions is 26.5

and on average im facing a 3bet 14.8 percent of the time

RFI by position----------- faced by 3bet------------average 3bet range facing
sb 38 ------------------------ 10------------------------------10
bu 42.6-----------------------15.9--------------------------- 7,95
co 26.5------------------------17,3----------------------------5,8
hj 15.5 ----------------------- 14,7----------------------------3,675
utg 13.1----------------------- 14,5----------------------------2,9

my fold to 3bet is 67

if anyone could give something to compare with.
• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
I see posts are not written anymore, so thanks everybody for usefull info.

i would kind of like to know how wide people are opening and how often they are faced a 3bet.

I try if I am not making mistake - to see vpip when I am first in:

first filter:
NL20
unopened

Now first in and facing 3bet

filter:
NL20
unopened
facing preflop 3bet = true

So to know what % is when I face 3bet when I open first in I think I have to calc this way:

hands when facing / hands total

SB: 96/2146 its 4%. Hmm something is wrong. How did you get those percentages?
• Silver
Joined: 05.02.2012
when you are calculating how often you are facing 3bet you should use how many hands you raised first in which is only 40% of all hands in unopened pot in the small blind so you shoul change the filter to raise first in and then make the calculation.
• Bronze
Joined: 04.01.2009
Originally posted by mkjmkjmkj
when you are calculating how often you are facing 3bet you should use how many hands you raised first in which is only 40% of all hands in unopened pot in the small blind so you shoul change the filter to raise first in and then make the calculation.
I cannot find filter raise first in in HM1. Maybe it does not have this.
• Bronze
Joined: 28.03.2011
It may be a little OOT but I didn't wanted to create a new thread.

Is it a leak if I 3 betting 5% and 4betting 10% preflop?
• Silver
Joined: 05.02.2012
Originally posted by staktas
It may be a little OOT but I didn't wanted to create a new thread.

Is it a leak if I 3 betting 5% and 4betting 10% preflop?
i dont know i use pokertracker
but you can also just pfr percentages of the hands in unopened pot and calculate it that way.
so sb 2146 *0.405
early 3116 * 0.146
• Silver
Joined: 05.02.2012
Originally posted by SPeedFANat1c
Originally posted by mkjmkjmkj
when you are calculating how often you are facing 3bet you should use how many hands you raised first in which is only 40% of all hands in unopened pot in the small blind so you shoul change the filter to raise first in and then make the calculation.
I cannot find filter raise first in in HM1. Maybe it does not have this.

ups wrong quote

i dont know i use pokertracker
but you can also just use the pfr percentages of the hands in unopened pot and calculate it that way.
so sb 2146 *0.405
early 3116 * 0.146