[NL20-NL50] NL25: ATo 3Bet spot 2nd pair

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 1974446
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BB: $22.19 - VPIP: 27, PFR: 17, 3B: 5, AF: 2,0, Hands: 48
      CO: $37.08 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 18, 3B: 7, AF: 2,0, FoldTo3Bet: 75(8), FoldCbetFlop: 78(9), Hands: 413
      BTN: $10.00 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 1,8, Hands: 257
      Hero (SB): $25.00 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 18, 3B: 5, AF: 4,8, Hands: 90087

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with A :club: T :heart:
      CO raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, CO calls $1.75

      Flop: ($5.25) T :diamond: J :heart: 3 :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.75, CO folds

      Villain is a reg.

      I suppose that the way I played should be fine. Not sure what to do on a blank turn if he calls though.
      Don't really like to double barrel vs a tight range (since he seems to fold to 3Bets so often).
  • 10 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      Well, what's the purpose of CBetting in first place then here? Wouldn't really make sense if you don't even have a plan for the turn.

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      The problem is that I still don't know how villain plays postflop because these stats are all I've got and the sample is still small.

      If we bet then we have to bet on all non-FD completing turns for sure.
      If we don't bet, we could consider check/calling, I suppose?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      The problem is that I still don't know how villain plays postflop because these stats are all I've got and the sample is still small.

      If we bet then we have to bet on all non-FD completing turns for sure.
      If we don't bet, we could consider check/calling, I suppose?
      Correcto, cause people tend to bluff less like this way. Though they will float you and may take a stab on you on the turn.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I am a bit unsure of whether check/calling the flop is a good way to play the hand though.
      I think it is unnecessarily tricky since we basically never know where we stand when our opponent bets and he may just as well try to barrel us off our hand with multible stabs.

      In general, betting flop + turn > check/calling flop unless there are any special conditions present?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      I am a bit unsure of whether check/calling the flop is a good way to play the hand though.
      I think it is unnecessarily tricky since we basically never know where we stand when our opponent bets and he may just as well try to barrel us off our hand with multible stabs.

      In general, betting flop + turn > check/calling flop unless there are any special conditions present?
      Well, what worse hands pay you on the flop a opponent who has fold to 3bet super-high and also super high fold to CB? Try to think a bit mate. ;) It's not that difficult. :D
    • prevolsek
      prevolsek
      Silver
      Joined: 18.02.2009 Posts: 282
      So if I understood correctly against such an opponent we should in general play on the flop like this:
      - if we hit a monster we bet for value and protection
      - if we hit a mediocre hand we check/call trying to induce a bluff, because cbeting wouldn't make sense, since he will only call with stonger hands and fold weaker hands?
      - if we miss then we cbet/fold the flop since he will fold a lot of stronger hands because his fold to cbet is so high.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by prevolsek
      So if I understood correctly against such an opponent we should in general play on the flop like this:
      - if we hit a monster we bet for value and protection
      - if we hit a mediocre hand we check/call trying to induce a bluff, because cbeting wouldn't make sense, since he will only call with stonger hands and fold weaker hands?
      - if we miss then we cbet/fold the flop since he will fold a lot of stronger hands because his fold to cbet is so high.
      What makes you think CBet/Fold is always the default line to take? Especially if such a guy will have a strong 3bet-calling range?
    • prevolsek
      prevolsek
      Silver
      Joined: 18.02.2009 Posts: 282
      Well it really depends on the board, but I do understand now that considering that his 3bet calling range is strong, we shouldn't bet a lot of times even though his fold to cbet is high also, because his fold to cbet in a 3bet pot will probablly be much lower since he rarelly calls a 3bet.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Well, what worse hands pay you on the flop a opponent who has fold to 3bet super-high and also super high fold to CB? Try to think a bit mate. It's not that difficult.


      Of course, there is little if any value in betting the flop, let alone in betting the turn. The original intention was to protect our equity vs the hands that miss (there should still be some in his range + the sample size is still small anyway).

      I suppose that vs a tight range betting indeed does not make sense.

      However, what are our options vs a tight range anyway?
      Could we not just check/fold? Maybe my memory is selective but I just see myself too often check/calling the flop to just simply check/fold the turn in such a spot.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by Avatars91
      Well, what worse hands pay you on the flop a opponent who has fold to 3bet super-high and also super high fold to CB? Try to think a bit mate. It's not that difficult.


      Of course, there is little if any value in betting the flop, let alone in betting the turn. The original intention was to protect our equity vs the hands that miss (there should still be some in his range + the sample size is still small anyway).

      I suppose that vs a tight range betting indeed does not make sense.

      However, what are our options vs a tight range anyway?
      Could we not just check/fold? Maybe my memory is selective but I just see myself too often check/calling the flop to just simply check/fold the turn in such a spot.
      If we assume his 3bet-calling range is nitty we rather go into Check/Folding line, especially if he is also passive and wont take stabs into us without having a hand.