I just desperately need support.

    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382
      Ok, so here is the story.

      On Jan 17th, 2012 I restarted my poker career. Everything went the right way and I managed to reach NL100 pretty fast, I was actually close to shooting NL200.

      But then. I dont know what happened. Total doomswtich. I have never ever experienced such a downswing. I have completely lost confidence in my game.
      I am trying so hard. Watching, reviewing, reading. But it never stops.

      I stepped down to NL50 again. In 16k hands I am down 8 BI's.

      When it seems that I am finally starting to get a break, then boom, 3k hands and I am in the basement again.

      This is just crazy. Never ending story of setups, coolers... And what is worst, it has completely ruined my game. I have no confidence in it, and I am sure all this mess opened so many holes in my game.

      Seems like I have no talent for this game.

      This is how it looks like.



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

      I really really need some advice.

      To those who have nothing smart to say, please restrain yourself from posting, thank you.
  • 29 replies
    • axeboy90
      axeboy90
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 3,023
      : shouting: DOWNSWIIIING !!!

      I think you really really need to take a break. Then watch a video, then only do a review. GL.
    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382
      Thank you for a reply. The problem is, I took 1 month length break from the game when moving from NL100 back to NL50. Absolutely nothing changed.

      I am feeling crushed actually.
    • abhi147
      abhi147
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2011 Posts: 935
      Man that is sick
      But if you were winning earlier I am sure things will be better

      And more often than not when we have a downswing we also start playing bad which makes the losses go deeper

      If a break doesnt work, well speak to some coach get a pvt coaching and see if there is anything that might actually need improvement

      I can assure you that even if your game has may be a few minor leaks but a coaching session will do wonders to your confidence
    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382
      I am afraid I no longer can afford one...
    • datsmahname
      datsmahname
      Global
      Joined: 23.11.2009 Posts: 1,366
      Tactically, its likely that mistakes and bad luck are both playing a roll. Its not possible to evaluate those things based on a graph.

      What is observable is your mental approach to those results and it contains many statements that you may want to look at very closely.

      Check out some of Jared Tendlers stuff, and be prepared to challenge your assumptions. Also, focus on things you can actually control.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      How much do you play and how much do you work on your game each day?
    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382
      Originally posted by datsmahname
      Tactically, its likely that mistakes and bad luck are both playing a roll. Its not possible to evaluate those things based on a graph.

      What is observable is your mental approach to those results and it contains many statements that you may want to look at very closely.

      Check out some of Jared Tendlers stuff, and be prepared to challenge your assumptions. Also, focus on things you can actually control.
      Thanks for an answer,

      Yeah, I have even wrote to my notepad (which is mean for improving at poker) that I have to at least read his AMA thread.

      I am trying my best to maintain good mindset but with this happening, I am really struggling to be honest.


      Schnitzelfisch>

      Hey coach,

      In the recent days I have been trying to actively watch at least 1 video every two days, also I read articles here and on 2+2. I definitely was not active enough at using hand evaluation services but I am now trying to fix that.

      Nowadays I am playing 1k-1,5k hands / day.
    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      can you post the same graph in terms of BBs instead of $? (I assume that graph runs over all the levels you have been playing through)
    • AugustusCaesar
      AugustusCaesar
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2008 Posts: 377
      These worked for me :

      1) Take a break from poker for a few day, dont even think about it
      2) After that, get into a "I like the game and want to play mood" (watching WSOP, High Stakes Poker, etc. done that for me) and play very very micro stakes just for fun for a day or two
      3) After that, play a limit somewehere in between, so it's nice when you win and no problem when you run bad
      4) If you feel you are back on your A game (you will feel it) and confident, get back to your original limits, but only play a few tables (1-2 I did), think very well about each decision, analyse
      5) Change the ratio of time spending playing vs. analysing to the analysing side

      Thats what I did after some sick swings and I was OK :-) I also recommend doing some really hard sport, really helped me relax (my personal choices - lifting weights, judo, conditional boxing)
    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382
      Originally posted by MisClick
      can you post the same graph in terms of BBs instead of $? (I assume that graph runs over all the levels you have been playing through)


      Uploaded with ImageShack.us


      Btw guys, thanks for all the answers. :heart:
    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382
      By the way, I could post my stats or something that could be useful for you guys to maybe point me in the right direction. :heart:
    • abhi147
      abhi147
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.08.2011 Posts: 935
      yeah
      stats would be good also graph with EV line

      Coaches might be able to understand and express more based on that may be
    • MisClick
      MisClick
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.05.2008 Posts: 1,186
      Well, imo you need to go back to basics and start again. Basically what AugustusCaesar said :)

      From the graph there is a solid start and then seems quite swingy. Maybe stuff that you weren't very confident about got tested at higher limits? Going down few limits can only be a good thing as it might help you to organize ideas and consolidate your knowledge. You might even get some insight on what happened to your game (and to you) when you went through this rough patch.
    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382


      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

      here they are guys, thats NL50 and NL100.
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Sorry bro, just move down and grind it out.

      I think the BB graph puts it in perspective. Obviously you ran super bad. It's also standard super bad though. Better players have been on bigger swings.

      There does seem to be a pretty noticeable decrease in winrate after 92k hands also. Maybe your winrate is not huge at those stakes.

      Anyways, gl. What doesn't kill you will make you stronger ;)
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      You could always try not moving down just one limit but several, to where you'll just totally crush and get your confidence back. Just a mini-version of your previous ascent.
    • Pkrpains
      Pkrpains
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2010 Posts: 382
      w34z3l,

      Yeah, guess you are right. It's funny you know, this was my second try to put my roots in NL100. I really thought that I am finally done with the micro stakes, but the story repeats and now I will have to rebuild for the third time.

      Obviously, from one point of view this is positive, since if I had moved up to NL200 with this many flaws in both practical and mental sides of poker, I am afraid to even think what could have happened there during a run-bad stretch.

      Will take this as an opportunity to refurbish my game and improve as much as I possibly can, because I just realized that you really have to do so these days to achieve something. Hopefully, as you say, this will make me much better of a player and will make me ready for the midstakes!

      Now I just need to hope I do not lack talent for that....

      THX for replies everyone. :heart:

      "It is not How Hard you Hit, but How Hard You Can Get Hit and Keep Moving Forward"
    • metza
      metza
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.01.2012 Posts: 2,220
      Great mindset!

      GL
    • ArtCascade
      ArtCascade
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.06.2012 Posts: 17
      While I don't know much about poker, I do know about mathematics and variance.

      Looking at your BB graph (and comparing to the money graph), I assume you moved up in limit somewhere around 60k-80k hands? From there you are more or less even, and not really fluctuating more than could be expected. Playing around a bit at evplusplus.com, this is 10 simulated curves over 100k hands, with expected breaking even, and default variance of 80:

      As you can see, they end up a few thousand BBs up or down, and can with some good/bad luck easily be several thousand BBs up or down.

      So I don't know exactly when you switched to higher limits, but if it was around 60k-80k hands, then you simply don't have enough statistics yet to tell if you are beating the limit but being unlucky, or the other way around. All you can say is that you are probably not beating the limit with more than 10BB/100 (on average during this period), unless you are really unlucky. (And similarly, not less than -10BB/100, unless you are really lucky.)

      And all that just from fluctuations, ignoring any psycological effects that may play in when you enter a period of bad luck.

      Try to play around on http://www.evplusplus.com if you want to get more feel for variance, and there was a video here on this page that was talking about variance using that page. Can't really remember which video atm though. :/

      Not sure if I helped, but good luck nonetheless. :)
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