[NL20-NL50] NL25: AQ – preflop = 3Bet or call?

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1999845
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      CO: $25.00 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 20, 3B: 0, AF: 3,0, Hands: 51
      BTN: $23.62 - VPIP: 49, PFR: 27, 3B: 3, AF: 1,2, FoldToCbetFlop: 62(13), Hands: 71
      SB: $29.00 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 12, 3B: 10, AF: 0,0, Hands: 81
      Hero (BB): $25.00 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 18, 3B: 5, AF: 4,8, Hands: 90087
      UTG: $25.00 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 16, 3B: 4, AF: 3,0, Hands: 172
      MP: $8.69 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 17, 3B: 11, AF: 0,0, Hands: 52

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with Q :heart: A :club:
      1 fold, MP raises to $0.85, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.85, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.60

      Flop: ($2.65) 4 :heart: 7 :heart: 3 :diamond: (3 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $2.00, BTN folds, Hero folds

      MP: unknown shortstack, seems like a reg, but not sure how good/bad
      BU: non-limping loose guy

      What about 3Betting? I am not happy about getting it in vs MP, not knowing anything about him/not having any history, but I see so much value vs the BU. May I 3Bet/fold if MP goes over the top?
  • 8 replies
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello Avatars91,

      If you are 3betting here what would be your plan vs MP go-broke? Do you do it for value?

      Best Regards.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      If you are 3betting here what would be your plan vs MP go-broke? Do you do it for value?


      It's a somewhat ugly situation because if he goes over the top we're getting quite some odds. Then again, we need 33% if BU folds and vs a somewhat realistic range we don't get them:


             Equity     Win     Tie
      MP2    28.15%  27.02%   1.14% { AQo }
      MP3    71.85%  70.71%   1.14% { JJ+, AKs, AKo }


      I hope I have not missed something. Maybe he does go broke lighter, it's just that I can't tell for sure + my squeeze looks strong already OOP vs a shortstack + fish overcaller.
      But there is soo much value from the BU.

      Instinctively I feel that you wouldn't be very happy about 3Bet/folding though. So I am a bit lost in this spot.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      I think AQ is a 3bet/call vs the shortie. He stacks off wider than JJ+, prob has TT and some AQ, 99 combos. With a correct sizing you are committed vs him... Keep in mind though that AQ is the bottom of your range so your range overall is still +EV. Add the value you get from the fish when shortie folds and it's great.
    • Keyser1
      Keyser1
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2012 Posts: 14
      I agree that you should 3bet and reluctantly call if the shortstacker shoves. We're not thrilled because most regular shortstackers open a very tight range from EP/MP, but as Emanuel said, he will fold some and stack off with TT, 99 and possibly worse. The main advantage to squeezing is getting to play your hand HU against the weak player in a 3bet pot. Multiway I generally always squeeze AQ because it plays better with HU and with the initiative. Just calling preflop and being forced to play top pair hands as bluff catchers in multiway pots where bluffs are less common is less profitable than squeezing. Plus of course we have to check-fold too often when we miss.

      Does anyone think a check-shove is reasonable on this flop? It might be worth examining if...

      1) A quick glance at his unopened stats reveals that it's possible he opens wider than 10% from MP,
      2) if he, like many shorstackers, cbets 100% of the time, even multiway on bad boards like this.

      Your hand is a good one to check-shove with two overs and a backdoor heart draw. That might be a little spewy, though, so I'd like to hear if others agree/disagree. The profitability of play hinges on how often he's cbet/folding and your equity when called. With 1/3 of his stack in the middle your FE might be too low for this play to be +EV. I've just found that one of the best ways to exploit shorties is by raising their wide cbet ranges, but I'm not sure if this is a good time.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      But do you think that all/most shortstack regs go broke in that spot with 99/TT and AQ?
      I've probably seen TT a few times maybe there (and even then very rarely), but I'm really still waiting for that AQ to come.

      One problem is that I am not exactly bluffing in this spot/similar spots all that much. If he's any good I have a difficulty imagining him perceiving AQ as a good hand to push there vs my range. And without him having AQ I am not quite sure 3Bet/calling is all that good. Not even sure about him going broke with TT there.

      Really no room for 3Bet/fold vs him?

      Does anyone think a check-shove is reasonable on this flop?


      His cBet is on the bigger side – can it not be perceived as strength most of the times?

      What else are we check/shoving here? Or do you think that we don't have to balance vs him?

      ------------
      2 quick questions –

      1) if I had AJo instead, what about 3Bet/folding it then?
      2) AJs = 3Bet/fold as well, or is it better called because of its playability?
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Will leave this thread for the guys who are already involved ;)
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Short stack regs ship in pairs there very often and I think TT+ is a pesimistic scenario. They aren't wrong it doing it but it means they make it profitable for you to 3bet/call AQ and sometimes get the weak player all to yourself while they fold preflop.

      My personal opinion is that AJs is a good enough hand to call and AJo is very marginal. If you are confident in postflop edge I think you can also call. I dislike 3bet/folding here because I believe the shortie shoves quite light but not enough to get in AJ. I think squeeze/calling 88+, AQ+ is a reasonable option here and never 3bet/folding.

      No idea about check/shoving flop tbh.. I usually don't do it with this specific hand, that said I've seen people calling off worse than AQ here. Maybe having Ah instead of Qh? Don't really know where to draw the line of A high check/shove and what's our whole range for doing it to make me decide. I haven't played vs such short stacks for quite some time now so I'm not really aware of their postflop tendencies (ldo, they don't play postflop).
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      How do we make money vs these shortstacks then? If they are not wrong in getting it in with pairs and if we must then go broke with AQ are we basically just trying to lose the least amount vs them? How do we overplay them?