Tournament VS Cash game

    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      Hey.

      I really really REALLY want to know what is the most profitable way to
      make money in poker! So is it cash game or tournaments? I hear people
      say tournaments is a good way to build your bankroll and some say
      that it doesn't matter. But isn't there a pro or any other who have the
      experience and have been a successful player for a long time who can
      tell me what is actual the best way? I don't know what to study anymore because i want to study the right thing. Do i waste my time trying to climbing up the limits playing nl10 or should i play 3 dollar tournaments with 5000K pricepool that sounds alot better? I'm not in a hurry but i do want to be able to play nl100 within at least 2 years. And one more question. What is the best combination between study and playing poker? is playing poker every other day and fill the days i don't play poker with study the best (something i do now)? If tournaments is the best, how many buy ins is it normal to lose? Because i tend to lose against donkeys who shove with 83suited and i call with AK. Is 10-20 times in a row much? How often should i get to the final table (at least)? When i ship it preflop or postflop and get busted, im starting to lose the confidence in my game even when i know i was the favorite to win in every hand i lost. Should i keep staying positive and think "i am gonna win in the long run" and keep playing?

      if anyone can answer this difficult topic I will be impressed and very VERY thankful!
  • 7 replies
    • Salivanth
      Salivanth
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.01.2011 Posts: 587
      I'm not a pro, but I can sum up the basic wisdom for you.

      MTT's are bad for beginners. They are extraordinarily high variance, and those prize pools seem really alluring (Believe me, I know, oh god how I know) but large-field MTT's like that are simply AWFUL for beginners. The variance is MASSIVE. Losing YEARS are not unheard of for professional MTT players. That is, overall, not making a profit. For a full year. Losing months aren't uncommon for professional SNG players or professional cash players, but a losing year would basically never happen for a professional player who actually wins at his limits in SNG's or cash.

      If you wish to move into MTT's, it's best to start with SNG's. SNG's are single-table tournaments: They're 6 or 9 players, and much lower variance than MTT's, though higher than cash games. If you do that, you'll also want to spend a lot of time studying ICM. ICM is basically the maths that governs what hands you should push or not in the stage of the tournament with <12 big blinds in your stack. The maths is too complex, so players study ICM by using programs that tell them what they should push in what situations...basically, digital flash cards.

      Cash games are the lowest variance, but also require the most postflop play and table selection. You really need to be constantly looking for better tables to sit at to be a good cashgame player.

      If you wish to play NL100, you should be playing cash games now.

      Now, on to variance.

      If you are the favourite when entering a hand, and lose, don't be discouraged. You will win in the long run.

      How often you should get to the final table depends on the size of the tournament you play, but variance plays a huge part. For example, in 45-man tournaments, the average player reaches the final table 20% of the time...so you should reach it about 1 time in 4. That said, it's very easy to play 10-20 tourneys and not reach the final table once, or to play 5 tourneys and final table 4 of them. Luck is a HUGE part of short-term poker. This is why volume and BRM are so important.

      Lastly, study. There are many different thoughts on this, but the average seems to be around 80-20: 1 hour of study for every 4 hours at the tables.

      I hope this helps!
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Gold
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,041
      First of all, SLOW DOWN

      you have a thousand and one questions for everyone which you hope will help you but truely the only way your going to find out is through experience yourself. There is no way you can tell how many times your going to win a tournament, you could win your first one for 5k, you might never win one. Tournaments are fun but the varience is extremely high, it's more of a gamble (IMO).

      I play cash games and i think just to be able to beat a limit is pretty cool, making cash and doing somthin you enjoy is awesome!
      So stop looking for anwsers and just play what you enjoy, try and listen to your own advice rather then looking for it from others, as there life isn't yours so things will work for them what wont work for you, and vice versa.

      Happy poker'ing :f_biggrin:
    • JimC6
      JimC6
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.04.2011 Posts: 458
      There is no 1 size fits all sure fire way to make profit or else everyone would be doing it and winning.

      Like Decmate has said it is really down to you to find out what you are good at.

      If you are asking for a general guide how to give yourself the best chance then in my opinion the key things are

      Bankroll Management
      Self Discipline (controlling tilt)
      Patience
      Volume
      Studying/reviewing your game
    • VBlue
      VBlue
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.07.2012 Posts: 37
      There isn't a more profitable option imo. There is a game which you prefer, or are more suited to for many reasons.

      Cash v Tournaments

      I like cash (and Speed/Zoom/Rush):

      - you can learn to beat a level and make a steady income
      - it is good for generating rake which can equate to rakeback or other rewards depending on where you play
      - if you can master cash games then you almost certainly have the skills to transfer to tournaments (but not as certainly the other way round)
      - you can fire up a table(s) and play an hour or so and do not have to commit to a longer session

      I like tournaments:

      - I like the format and think $10s and below where I play mostly are very beatable
      - you have the opportunity to turn a few dollars into a few hundred/thousand
      - I have previously played an OK sample of STTs and learnt some skills in ICM which are useful

      Study


      Some good threads below on this.

      You have to make your own plan. Evaluate your game - what do you do when playing well, what do you do when playing badly? Make a plan to improve. Set goals. Follow the Process model (see thread below)

      Why do you want to play 100nl in 2 years? You can have a goal but it has to have a why attached to it. I have set short-term and longer-term goals 3mths-12mths. Why do you play poker? What are the underlying reasons?

      Read some stuff on variance. Ak v 83 is going to lose nearly as often as it wins. All-ins are not the only part of poker. Learn the odds of all-in hands vs each other.

      Hope this is a start.
    • Schnitzelfisch
      Schnitzelfisch
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.11.2008 Posts: 4,952
      Hey,

      I'm not going to answer about tournaments and cash games because there is no one-fits-all answer and each person has to find for themselves what works best for them.

      Regarding the study/playing balance, I will give you some food for thought:

      -Studying is pointless if you don't apply everything that you learn
      -Playing a session is pointless if you don't apply something you're trying to learn during the session

      -SF
    • Saren113
      Saren113
      Gold
      Joined: 06.03.2009 Posts: 2,884
      Originally posted by VBlue
      There isn't a more profitable option imo. There is a game which you prefer, or are more suited to for many reasons.

      Cash v Tournaments

      I like cash (and Speed/Zoom/Rush):

      - you can learn to beat a level and make a steady income
      - it is good for generating rake which can equate to rakeback or other rewards depending on where you play
      - if you can master cash games then you almost certainly have the skills to transfer to tournaments (but not as certainly the other way round)
      - you can fire up a table(s) and play an hour or so and do not have to commit to a longer session

      I like tournaments:

      - I like the format and think $10s and below where I play mostly are very beatable
      - you have the opportunity to turn a few dollars into a few hundred/thousand
      - I have previously played an OK sample of STTs and learnt some skills in ICM which are useful

      Study


      Some good threads below on this.

      You have to make your own plan. Evaluate your game - what do you do when playing well, what do you do when playing badly? Make a plan to improve. Set goals. Follow the Process model (see thread below)

      Why do you want to play 100nl in 2 years? You can have a goal but it has to have a why attached to it. I have set short-term and longer-term goals 3mths-12mths. Why do you play poker? What are the underlying reasons?

      Read some stuff on variance. Ak v 83 is going to lose nearly as often as it wins. All-ins are not the only part of poker. Learn the odds of all-in hands vs each other.

      Hope this is a start.
      Hey mate! All normal size bis are beatble 1-215$ if you got semi decent postflop game.

      I agree with Schnitzelfisch!
    • hvard92
      hvard92
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.02.2012 Posts: 789
      Hey. I guess this is all the feedback i can get, and i got alot!
      I have now seen through all the feedback and took some tips here and there and wrote down a summary. You really helped me guys. I didn't expect so much great feedback. alot of wise words. Thank you so much!