How to cure a downswing?

    • newton15
      newton15
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2008 Posts: 30
      This month (although only 3 days old), has been a disaster for me. In the space of this time, I have managed to lose next to very single coin flip hand, I've lost when 90% ahead on the flop.

      The same goes for the MTT. I get high up, only to bust against someone who shouldn't even be calling the hand.

      So what I ask is, how do players get over their downswings and start rebuilding? I have $60 in my PT account and I want to use this to the best potential. At one point, I was at $250 and I want to get somewhere close to this. I have read article after article until the text just looks like one big blur. I've tried moving limits only to find the number of donks increase and the losses increase. I got accused of short stack abuse with AA after 2 raises before me and was called by AJ only to find them hit runner straights and again cause more losses.

      For now, I will try the small buy in SnGs and hope my luck changes.

      Edit: and no disrespect intended, but "read the BRM articles" won't be seen as useful advice. I have read this inside out.
  • 16 replies
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Originally posted by newton15
      and no disrespect intended, but "read the BRM articles" won't be seen as useful advice. I have read this inside out.
      follow the BRM articles
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      Originally posted by newton15
      and no disrespect intended, but "read the BRM articles" won't be seen as useful advice. I have read this inside out.
      Study the BRM articles


      And on a more serious note , study all articles because judging by this and the other thread you dont have a clue about what you are doing.
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hello newton15 -

      Its good that you are trying to learn and asking for advice. This is the "first step" of becoming a winning player. Although you call it a downswing it is probably just a mixture of variance, leaks and a bit of bad luck. The term "downswing" is used much to often (For more on this read this article Professional Attitude which deals with the mindset of winning players).

      Accepting the fact that you have leaks - and actively working on eliminating them is essential for getting better. To fix leaks post hands in the example hands forum (as many as you deem necessary) - watch videos - and visit coachings.



      All of these things are important - but most important is your willingness to learn and improve :)

      Best regards,
      SoyCD
    • newton15
      newton15
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2008 Posts: 30
      Thanks Soy, that's the sort of thing I was looking for. Not disrespectful posts from other members who claim I "don't know what I'm doing".

      I was also wondering what people did to get out of these bad swings as well. Do they take longer breaks (days, weeks, etc), or do they just try and play out of it.

      But anyway, I'll read the articles and see what's what.
    • undercover82
      undercover82
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.12.2006 Posts: 813
      So you think the way i express myself is more important than what i am actually saying ?

      Ok , you received your starting capital a week ago , you are mixing various types of games instead of concentrating in one , you are complaining about totally normal beats (AQ vs KK vs 88) where you were a big underdog at the moment you put your chips in , you play shortstack with 7BB because you are not getting good hands and you dont wanna get sucked out in a bigger pot (totally irrational thinking) and then when you rebuy you sit in the table until you ve reached 150 BB. You also call half your stack with KJo , and then you say wtf why did he call my all in ? Well you give him great pot odds and his check/call with A high seems perfectly normal to me.

      If you still prefer whining about disrespect than getting the point , thats fine by me.
    • newton15
      newton15
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.06.2008 Posts: 30
      There are far better ways of saying things than "you don't know what you're doing". You're talking like I play every single hand.

      A reply like Soy's I will take great notice to as he's being helpful, but when someone is being flatout rude, then you just ignore it, in fact what was in that reply to suggest help?

      Again, thanks Soy. At least one person is willing to help and I am willing to learn if the right people motivate and encourage a positive learning environment.
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      By responding here he's trying to help you. Whether it's in this way or in another, if you listen to it it will help you. Who cares if he says you dont know what you're doing? He might be right, just accept it and try to get better. Not moan because somebody said you dont know what youre doing. Leaving your ego behind can also be very important in poker :)
    • arjun2001
      arjun2001
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 352
      Originally posted by Yoghi
      By responding here he's trying to help you. Whether it's in this way or in another, if you listen to it it will help you. Who cares if he says you dont know what you're doing? He might be right, just accept it and try to get better. Not moan because somebody said you dont know what youre doing. Leaving your ego behind can also be very important in poker :)
      no offense, but some members are a bit rude when it comes to giving help.. so I support newton.

      To the post: You have to play to get over a downswing, but not playing during tilt. We can also pla together if you want, like a study group, coz I play the same buy-ins as you, and have like $90 so same BR.
    • hamusuta
      hamusuta
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2008 Posts: 5
      250-> 60 is not a downswing bro...

      i went to 650...and sunk all the way down to 160...painnn i drop down in stakes by 2 notches of the ladder :(

      but best way to cure a downswing...take a break watch some poker vids and drop down in stakes ... thats wat i'm doing anyways
    • tehChipDonk
      tehChipDonk
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 173
      my downswing from a week ago was from $280 to $10 then i upswinged it to $50 as of right now. oh yea, like arjun said, you cant do jack squat to cure a ds, you just have to grind through it...
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      HOW DO YOU RECOVER?!?!?

      are you serious?

      poker is a game of high varriance consisting on up swings and downswings
      everyone has a standard win rate.

      if your win rate is much higher that your standard rate then you are on an upswing (running hot: getting more than your fair share of luck and big hands)
      downswings are just the opposite of this where you get worse luck than probability dictates.

      you carnt stop downswings all you can do is remove your emotions from your play and keep making correct dessisions. say you went all in with KK on a downswing and lost to A2 you just have to accept that, next time you get KK if losing to the A2 sticks in your head and as a result play it to softly well your on tilt and emotions are maing dessisions for you.

      downswings dont have a set number of hands day or BB. there just negative varrieance where loseing sessions have been clumped to gether.

      there is no magical cure all you can do is keep playing you best game and dont do anything irational.
    • Vargan
      Vargan
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.03.2008 Posts: 565
      Originally posted by newton15Edit: and no disrespect intended, but "read the BRM articles" won't be seen as useful advice. I have read this inside out.
      First - Do not come here and ask for advice if you dont want it.

      If you read something you dont like you will often read it with hostility and take it the wrong way and get offended. You must remember that this is the internet. People have various writing habbits, like posting short posts yet informative posts. I dont think people mean you harm when they say "study BRM", I think its in their best of interest now matter how they write it, and no matter how you read it. Even some pro players have problems with BRM.

      I suggest reading replies with a smile and with an open mind.

      The cure is to get better. Belive in yourself and your own abilities.

      Originally posted by PocketAcesJohn
      you carnt stop downswings all you can do is remove your emotions from your play and keep making correct dessisions.
      I second this.
    • Tosh5457
      Tosh5457
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.01.2008 Posts: 3,062
      That's not a downswing, many players use the word "downswing" as an excuse for their game leaks, accept that your game has leaks, and work on them posting hands, viewing videos and going to coachings.

      And try not to use downswing as an excuse on the future, when I start losing I accept that I'm having bad luck but I'm never sure that I'm playing good, so I review my played hands and try to focus a lot so I can play my A-game.

      Downswing exist alright, but I think people overuse the term because they don't accept they aren't playing so well because of frustration and possible leaks. I quickly realized this, and it only helps. Just go to the root of the problem instead of using "defenses" :)

      Good luck.
    • DrFunk
      DrFunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.01.2008 Posts: 348
      Tosh : downswing, running bad and playing bad are completely different things. DUCY?
    • ManniXXX
      ManniXXX
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.09.2007 Posts: 707
      Imo if you can't take a little heat from forum posts, whether they are friendly, slightly rude or outright flame, then you probably won't do too well in poker.

      Self dicipline and control are rather important skills.

      Downswing isn't an illness btw, there is no cure ;)
    • PocketAcesJohn
      PocketAcesJohn
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.06.2008 Posts: 1,116
      Originally posted by newton15
      This month (although only 3 days old), has been a disaster for me. In the space of this time, I have managed to lose next to very single coin flip hand, I've lost when 90% ahead on the flop.

      The same goes for the MTT. I get high up, only to bust against someone who shouldn't even be calling the hand.

      So what I ask is, how do players get over their downswings and start rebuilding? I have $60 in my PT account and I want to use this to the best potential. At one point, I was at $250 and I want to get somewhere close to this. I have read article after article until the text just looks like one big blur. I've tried moving limits only to find the number of donks increase and the losses increase. I got accused of short stack abuse with AA after 2 raises before me and was called by AJ only to find them hit runner straights and again cause more losses.

      For now, I will try the small buy in SnGs and hope my luck changes.

      Edit: and no disrespect intended, but "read the BRM articles" won't be seen as useful advice. I have read this inside out.
      its ok to set yourself targets in poker...just not ones you have no phsical control over...for exarmple:

      "i will play atleast 2000 hands a week"

      this is a good target as you are incontrole of that and it puts no preshure or expectation on how you play.


      "i want to win $x buy Xnumber of hands or Xdays"

      this is not a good target to make...you have no controle over the cards you or your opponent have. you may get close to your target dedline and be short...so you may decide to chase a few weak drew in hope to hit that magic card that'll get you to your target.

      basically if any goals have a direct relation to how you play then there not targets you should be making.