[NL2-NL10] NL4SH - AK - vs 2x pot DB

    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,218
      villain is an unknown

      Flop: I think folding here is out of the question since:
      1) We have TPTK
      2) Villain can be donking loads worse: any AX or FD maybe some SD's.

      So I can either raise or call. I think if I raise it has to be raise fold since I don't see him 3b'ing worse. I decdided to call and re-evaluate Turn since I am IP and can control the size of the pot better.

      Turn: This completes 69/46 which I don't think he will have very frequently. I think folding is now a possibilty since he is showing a lot of strength by barrelling the Turn, but I still think he does this with weaker AX and FD's or SD's as well. Therefore I think we can either raise/fold or call and re-evaluate River for the same reasoning as on the flop.

      River: Pretty good for us as we make trips, so we are only behind to FH's and turned straights. When he checks I think x/beh would be too weak, so went for thin value R. What do you think about bet sizing? I wanted to make it super value for villain

      Cheers

      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

      SB: $4.15
      Hero (BB): $4.00
      UTG: $4.28
      MP: $9.11
      CO: $1.27
      BTN: $4.00

      SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has K:diamond: A:heart:

      fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.08

      Flop: ($0.24, 2 players) 8:heart: A:diamond: 7:heart:
      SB bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

      Turn: ($1.04, 2 players) 5:spade:
      SB bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

      River: ($2.64, 2 players) A:spade:
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.87, SB calls $0.87

      Hero shows K:diamond: A:heart: (Three of a Kind, Aces) (Pre 58%, Flop 29%, Turn 18%)
      SB mucks 8:club: 7:club: (Two Pair, Aces and Eights) (Pre 42%, Flop 71%, Turn 82%)
      Hero wins $4.17
  • 7 replies
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      Hello,

      I'd understand your thought process about donking on flop with weak Ax and draws, if he would donk like 2/3 or 1/2. Now that he donks overpot it's just screaming strength. If he hasn't done that ever before, I'd just fold my hand here. Fish usually lead with strong hands.

      It's hard to play anyway afterwards, even if you hit your A you don't know whether you are ahead of facing a FH. He could have sets and A7/A8 easily on his range.

      Though on the river when he just checks it looks like his hand is beaten, so I'd bet s much as you did. But this time you were lucky to beat him, the right play would have been to fold flop. You can't definitely raise it there, you would isolate yourself against bigger hands all the time and his potential draws that donk would fold.
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,218
      I'd just fold my hand here. Fish usually lead with strong hands.


      Yes they do, but I don't think the donkbet exclusively with 2pr+ either. I think we would be folding the best hand way too often here to just fold the flop.

      If we are going to x/f to aggression on an A-hi board, then what's the point in opening AKo preflop?

      cheers
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      We are not going x/f AKo when it hits, but think of what he would donk nearly 2x the pot :D ? Can't see that many weaker hands there, unless he always do that with hands like A2 and when he hits top-pair.
    • cheekopeh
      cheekopeh
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2010 Posts: 461
      Hi,

      I'm on a mission to try looking at other player's hands and discussing, so pardon me if I spew nonsense which you guys might not understand :D

      IMO, Sb very likely has TPTK beat with such a strong bet on the flop. In my experience, fish minbets with draws, 2nd pair and bottom pair. He most likely has A7, A8 and even sets that want to protect against the FD. Maybe he plays AQ/AJ this way.

      However, I also think it would be too weak to fold to a donk bet on the flop with TPTK. But this case it is overbet which looks very strong, so it would be interesting to see what the coach has to say as well.

      I would personally call and then re-evaluate on the Turn. But if he bets strong on the Turn then would definitely fold as then we would have to call on River brick knowing that our hand is very likely beat.

      Cheers
    • muel294
      muel294
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,218
      Originally posted by CPallo
      We are not going x/f AKo when it hits, but think of what he would donk nearly 2x the pot :D ? Can't see that many weaker hands there, unless he always do that with hands like A2 and when he hits top-pair.
      I see what you're saying. I guess you would assume he only 2xpots 2pr+ then. I was just thinking he could play this way with A9+.

      Thanks for the advice :)
    • CPallo
      CPallo
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2012 Posts: 4,350
      No problemo. Hopefully you made a note that this guys donks big with 2 pairs :D
    • BogdanPS
      BogdanPS
      Basic
      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 27,588
      Your thought process on flop/turn is not bad. Against unknown we have to make a judgement call and stand by it.

      I can see him donking enough worse hands for us to be able to call.

      However I feel that we misplayed the river slightly.

      Remember the range you put him on and what part of it you want to get value from. If he has a draw that he missed he's most likely check folding.

      If he has a set (full house now) he is most likely shoving and I don't think we are folding.

      If he has an Ax he may just call and that's a problem for us because this is the range we want to maximize value versus. So I'd just shove the river to get value from this (again this is based on what range we put him on to get to the river with).

      As far as the range allocation goes, this is 4nl and the guy is unknown so he could be easily bluffing, donking Ax or even 8x or TT type hands. So I wouldn't put him right away on the nuts and fold my hand.