[NL2-NL10] AQo 3bet pot

    • cozacu
      cozacu
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 1,379
      $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
      Prima
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

      Stacks:
      UTG ($12.09) 121bb
      UTG+1 ($5.53) 55bb
      cozacu (CO) ($10.81) 108bb
      BTN ($10) 100bb
      SB ($10.68) 107bb
      BB ($11.11) 111bb

      Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 6 players) cozacu is CO Q:club: A:heart:
      UTG raises to $0.40, UTG+1 calls $0.40, cozacu raises to $1.30, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.90, UTG+1 folds

      Flop: Q:diamond: 4:heart: 4:diamond: ($2.75, 2 players)
      UTG checks, cozacu bets $1.50, UTG raises to $4.55, cozacu goes all-in $8.01, UTG calls $4.96

      Turn: 7:club: ($17.22, 2 players, 1 all-in)

      River: 2:spade: ($17.22, 2 players, 1 all-in)


      villain 27/18af 2.7 UTG PFR 20% cbet 75 ftcbet 42 ft3bet 71% (3bet 9.1) wtsd 26 889 hand

      Notes: just calls set, checks Fh on river
      broke PF w JJ 100BB vs sq

      Well i think this hand is pretty straight forward, but i might be missing something... PF sq is good regarding villain`s PFR from UTG and Mp was a 42/12 fish.

      When he calls, i can't define his range too well, just because he went broke before vs me with JJ PF doesn't mean he is in the mood to do it again... i think he`s got something like TT+,KQs,AQ+... i did not check yet but i`m pretty sure i`m ahead vs that range...

      after he raises, well he either have it or he doesn't, 4x it's very unlikely, so it`s QQ, so now only KK and AA beats us. Question is could he x/r TT,JJ,QK or AK in such spot, FD`s like AKdd and maybe KJdd?


      Bottom line, can we find a fold here after his raise on flop vs this guy?
  • 13 replies
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Hello cozacu,

      I don't like your preflop play.
      What worse hands do you think are calling here preflop and also why do we make it so small?

      Postflop is pretty standart to me.
      He is unlikely to have any 4x, and also people tend to just call them, and I think most of the time QQ is going broke preflop.

      Best,
      Plamen
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      what's wrong with preflop sizing? i think it is quite standard.
      otherwise since villain is opening 20% from utg (!) and folding a lot to 3bets this may be a nice squeeze spot with blockers since our hand doesn't do that well multiway.

      postflop i'm also definitely never folding, this is pretty much one of the best flops that we could hope for with AQ.
      with your reads i'd only be afraid of KK+. if he can slowplay them you are about to find out...
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      We have a raiser + caller so don't you think we should make it at least 4x?

      Also if we are going to 3bet as a bluff that's ok, but I do think that we can just call this and play postflop, since he would have worse Ax and Qx, and we have position.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      i think $1.30 is on the smaller side but fine for our purposes, best case is that utg folds and fishy shorty mp calls.

      i think that utg will be folding most of the time, his foldto3bet% is high enough, we are already demonstrating enough strength and he doesn't look solid at 27/18.
      when he calls i think that his range will be heavily weighted towards pocket pairs so it shouldn't be too hard to play IP postflop against him.

      also we're facing a 4x open which makes the pot overly bloated.
      so in this spot i'd tend towards about $1.40 myself, if it was a 3x open though i'd make it $1.10-1.20.

      thoughts?
      nice to get this discussion going because these spots are not talked about very often imo.
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      I'm glad that there is discussion too.

      So I do agree that we cal make it a little bit smaller but I think that $1.3 is kind of too small.

      My main reasonings for going onto the bigger side are:
      - we are giving him decent odds to call and play postflop
      - if the midstack calls pot will bet $2.75 and he will have $3.8 left so we will have to play on two streets, not one. If we make it $1.5 for example, pot will be $3.35 and he will have $3.6, and if we make it $1.6 pot will be $3.55 and he would have $3.5.

      Since UTG also doesn't like to fold to cb a lot I do prefer to make it at least $1.5.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      fair enough. i think that we both have valid points so we can agree to slightly disagree :D

      in these spots i usually don't like to ship the flop against the midstack regardless of whether i hit or not but stack sizes are going to be slightly awkward in this case.
    • xero100
      xero100
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.08.2009 Posts: 1,355
      can we fold if theres no fd on flop?
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well if there is no FD on the flop I think we can still call.

      As I said in my first post I expect him to 4b QQ and I don't see any 4x there.
    • cozacu
      cozacu
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 1,379
      So broke i went... and i got showed KK, witch we could expect, as i said only KK,AA beats us there,still i wasn't that sure he can slowplay OOP with a pot witch could easly become a 3 way pot.

      Now about my sq sizing, well honestly 1.3-1.5 it's not too much of a difference simply because with 1.3 villain has to call 90c to win a possible 10euros(that's no good for set mining- so his odds are not that great) and he`s got one mid stack fish behind him who could easly shove or just fold as he did, that's why i don't think we have any small PP in UTG`s range, or if he does his play would be -Ev in my opinion.

      Now sq sizing vs fish... scenario where UTG does fold PF, we don't want to have a huge pot, because MP will have quite a few spots where is just jamming on ugly boards and we have to fold... or he could directly shove PF, do you want to call a 55BB AI PF with AQo?
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well I think if the midstack calls he is going to play relatively straight forward postflop and most often just check/fold if he doesn't hit, si I don't really expect him to take any creative lines such as "call preflop, shove flop".

      If he shoves there preflop we have an easy call for 50bb because he will have tons of worse Ax and pocket pairs there.
    • xero100
      xero100
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.08.2009 Posts: 1,355
      ok lets say we call here and not squeeze, dont you think other player behind me will join a pot?
    • kymupa
      kymupa
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364
      Well they are going to get better pot odds but I don't think that is a huge problem, since we are not going to overplay our one pair hands.
    • cozacu
      cozacu
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.02.2010 Posts: 1,379
      Calling is much worst then Sq here IMO, AQo it's just not playing well mutiway even if we do have position.