[NL20-NL50] [SH] NL 50 combo nut draw vs fish x/r

    • DeMarcohsp
      DeMarcohsp
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.06.2010 Posts: 1,975
      On Game, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      CO: $71.06 (142.1 bb)
      BTN: $56.86 (113.7 bb)
      SB: $71.33 (142.7 bb)
      BB: $51 (102 bb)
      Hero (UTG): $49.37 (98.7 bb)
      MP: $64.39 (128.8 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is UTG with K J
      Hero raises to $2, 4 folds, BB calls $1.50

      Flop: ($4.25) A 4 T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $2.50, BB raises to $7, Hero calls $4.50

      Turn: ($18.25) T (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      River: ($18.25) 7 (2 players)
      BB bets $12, Hero raises to $25, BB raises to $42 and is all-in, Hero calls $15.37 and is all-in

      Results:
      $98.99 pot ($3.00 rake)
      Final Board: A 4 T T 7
      BB showed A T and won $95.99 ($46.62 net)
      Hero mucked K J and lost (-$49.37 net)



      Against fish I think we can just call to hit and get the money in when we do so I see no reason to 3bet flop as we can save some money.

      River I thought that his play is consistent with a weak fd. When he shoves I think he almost always has me beat. Where would you play differently?
  • 7 replies
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      3bet flop imo, very very very easily. You actually get value from weaker flush draws and don't rely on hitting to win the pot. That's the beauty of these combo nut draws, you can play them like the nuts and make people fold a whole lot of equity.

      Keep in mind that although your hand is never drawing dead, when you make him fold some bluffs with 25% equity when OOP or even good pairs and Ax it's still a success.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Hey,

      - M'sorry but again this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Emanuel, did you see we are playing vs a passive fish? He plays vs UTG range and he check/raises a flop that hits our range good. He is NEVER bluffing. This combined with the fact that he is NEVER folding Ax to a 3bet tells me we should just call the flop.

      Check behind turn to realize equity looks great and after that I'd just shove the river because we're comitted anyways. :)

      Your thoughts please =)
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      If you think he never folds to a 3bet it means his hand is so strong you never see another card for free so you don't realize more equity. Combined with the fact that your equity drastically decreases on the turn you just end up costing yourself equity instead of realizing more of it.

      Regarding river shove, what do you think you get value from if he is never bluffing the flop? If you exclude hands from his range on the flop based on his actions you can't just include them on the river again.
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      If you think he never folds to a 3bet it means his hand is so strong you never see another card for free so you don't realize more equity. Combined with the fact that your equity drastically decreases on the turn you just end up costing yourself equity instead of realizing more of it.

      Regarding river shove, what do you think you get value from if he is never bluffing the flop? If you exclude hands from his range on the flop based on his actions you can't just include them on the river again.
      I don't understand what you mean with your first phrase ;( . What is meant by 'realizing your equity' :rolleyes: ? Does it just mean that sometimes we can check behind thanks to out position? Well we have this option right here don't we?

      Oh lol sick that I said to shove R. Because of the last thing you said I'm even just calling or raise/folding at best :P . We only hope to see ThXh and this aren't that many combo's, he would most likely also continue the turn. AT makes perfect sense so maybe we should just call his riverbet???
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      24% flop raise = either bluffing/semibluffing a lot or making thin value checkraises.with tpnk. Jamming flop allows u to
      1) dominate worse flush draws
      2) fold out his equity share in the pot immediately
      3) if he folds a top pair hand jamming becomes insanely more profitable for u

      Most of ur assumptions are wrong, because someone who only checkraises the nuts will have raised cbet of <10%
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      Oh lol I'm sorry man, didn't noticed his raiseCB :(
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Great, those stats are more relevant usually in these spots. I think microstakes players only like to look at AF, which is a pretty useless stat in many cases IMO.