[NL2-NL10] QQ - preflop bet sizings

    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      Hey guys, I'm just starting to muck around with cash games now that i'm getting back into online poker.
      I'm used to playing SnG games where the biggest the stacks get is 30bb deep... so getting 3bet with QQ is just an insta-shove there. But here i'm much deeper, so I wanted to know if there are any general rules for 3bet and 4bet sizings preflop for hands we want to get all-in with?


      Full Tilt Poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BTN: $2.62
      SB: $2.17
      BB: $2.02
      UTG: $2.08
      Hero (UTG+1): $1.90
      MP1: $1.47
      MP2: $2.95
      CO: $1.91

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG+1 with Q:club: Q:heart:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.08, 4 folds, SB raises to $0.22, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.86, SB raises to $2.17 all in, Hero calls $1.04 all in


      Cheers,
      Ged
  • 3 replies
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      hello and welcome :)

      first, turn on auto-reload to a full stack, value innit :f_biggrin:

      Originally posted by gedwashere91
      I wanted to know if there are any general rules for 3bet and 4bet sizings preflop [...]
      assuming 100bb stacks... you want to raise enough to generate enough pressure.

      for 3betting you usually want to make it 3x the original raise + 1x per caller (for squeezing) + 1bb if you are out of position. (to give the original raiser worse odds and lower the stack to pot ratio, which means you won't feel your positional disadvantage as badly)

      for 4betting you usually don't want to 4bet so much that you'll be clearly pot commited (aka allow yourself to have a 4bet/fold range) so usually 2.5x the 3bet sizing is good.

      that's mostly the standard for "good practice" - if you have a feel for your opponent's tendencies then you just go ahead and play exploitatively by raising smaller/bigger depending on what you want to accomplish.


      so, on this hand - your 4bet sizing is clearly HUGE.
      you are pretty much never folding after you 4bet this big since you have $1.04 behind on what is going to be a $3.82 pot - need only 27% equity to call his shove.

      also QQ/AK are not insta-iwanttoshove in fullring cash games, keep in mind relative positions and your opponent.
      you'll often enough face very tight 3betting ranges, specially in this sbvutg spot :)
    • gedwashere91
      gedwashere91
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.07.2009 Posts: 2,387
      Hahah true, i'll switch on auto-reload now.

      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      also QQ/AK are not insta-iwanttoshove in fullring cash games
      OH NO! my whole life has been a lie. :f_cry:
      I was actually wondering that. ofc villain turned up here with KK, and i was like "meh cooler", but part of me was sorta thinking maybe I could have 4bet less and folded.

      Thanks for the info on bet sizings though. The idea of ever playing 4bet/fold seems quite foreign to me (obv you almost never do that in SnGs), but i guess it can make sense in cash games vs some opponents.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      :f_cry: sorry to break the news

      AK/QQ usually are NOT hands that you want to 4bet/fold with, though.
      when would you want to 4bet/fold with AK/QQ? it's VERY specific:

      - villain can 3bet light and call your 4bet with worse hands
      - he stacks off ONLY with KK+

      if he can 3bet light and 5bet QQ+/AK then it's a 4bet/call.
      if he can 3bet light, but only continues with KK+ when facing a 4bet, then there is no point in 4betting.


      so, if not to 4bet, then what to do against a tight 3bettor?
      call and reevaluate postflop. that's specially attractive being in position :f_biggrin:

      sometimes you can even fold to the 3bet, mostly if you are out of position and have reason to believe that he is not 3betting worse than QQ+/AK. just fold.
      ie, utg vs utg and a solid player makes a huge 3bet.