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[NL2-NL10] [SH] NL10 bvb, A5o

    • TetraQuark
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,521
      $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
      4 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by

      CO ($17.15) 172bb
      BTN ($10) 100bb
      SB ($8.58) 86bb
      Hero (BB) ($15.87) 159bb

      Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 4 players) Hero is BB 5 A
      2 folds, SB raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.20

      Flop: 9 7 5 ($0.60, 2 players)
      SB checks, Hero bets $0.35, SB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.65

      Turn: T ($2.60, 2 players)
      SB checks, Hero checks

      River: 2 ($2.60, 2 players)
      SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

      Final Pot: $6.60 SB shows high card Queen 3 Q Hero shows a pair of Fives 5 A Hero wins $6.30 (net +$3) SB lost $3.30

      Villain was 31/22, AF 1.3 at the time of playing. What is more important is the read that he slowplayed str8 once vs me (c/c, c/c, c/s) and that he just mostly called down hands w sd value.

      Pre: I flat all Ax ip and play him post, taking value lines when I hit TP, or play the board if I can.

      Flop: Based on my read I expect him to get tricky w nuted part of the range and c/c, also just bet out mediocre part of his range or c/c it also. Bcs fish c/r nuts or air most of the time (as pfr) I can clearly pinpoint his c/r as a bluff (regarding the read).

      Turn: On turn I am a bit unsure. We virtually cannot bet for value, protection is a side effect of a value bet so I cannot do it for protection only (we are also vs 20ish% mostly vs him in this spot). I still want to keep the pot small and only bluff catch.

      River: His bet was quite fast and big. Regarding sizing an timing I can be sure he wants me to fold. He would bet less w a weak made hand and as we established there is almost no "nutz" in his range.

      -How is my though process in this hand?

      -Do we call if river is J Q K A or if the :diamond: fills up?

      Thank you!
  • 6 replies
    • wasilek123
      Joined: 20.11.2008 Posts: 448
      This is mostly the read play :) without reads is very badly played ... with reads it's played well.

      I think I would fire T tho after his check, I would go for dead money I could get. Almost any card on the R is though. Any 6, 8, J give him possible straight (SB range is huge), K, Q can be in his range too. only pairing cards could be good, and cards below 5.
    • kymupa
      Joined: 22.10.2009 Posts: 22,364

      I think this is a very interesting hand, but I think you kind of missplayed it.

      Preflop I think calling A-rag against this kind of guy is kind of close and I do prefer 3betting or folding.
      Anyways, if you think you can outplay villain postflop I don't mind it, but keep in mind that those hands can lead us loosing a lot of money, while winning just a bunch of small pots.

      So flop isn't really great here for sure and his check is suspicious.
      Betting is a mistake here for me because:
      - we have showdown value
      - we don't want to get check/raised
      - we can't really take value from a lot of worse hands and also the majority of the turn cards will be bad
      - also - he played strong hands passively against us
      Regarding these reasons I prefer checking back and reevaluating the turn.
      As played, I'd really not call his raise here. He might have everything - from Q3 (as in the case) to the nuts, and considering the fact that the majority of the turn cards will be bad for us and we will have to play the guessing games.
      What if he bet this turn? What will you have done?

      So checking turn is good here. No need to bet because we don't really want to make the pot big, and also want to get to SD as cheap as possible.

      The river is the absolute blank here but I'd prefer folding here. His line is so weird, but then I don't really think we are good often enough to justify a call.
      If the river was J,Q,K or diamond I'm folding, and of course if it was an ace I'm calling.

      So overall - we don't really need to make plays like this on these stakes and rather just keep the ABC style.
      Also - as I said before - keep in mind that those hands can lead us loosing a lot of money, while winning just a bunch of small pots.

      Do you have anything to add or ask?

    • TetraQuark
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,521
      Basically we are an advocate of ABC on nl10 which is fine. Will prolly work if I 24 table nl10 and play 12/10.

      BUT ... I am playing only 4 tables w normal speed (not fast). Just so I can get good quality reads on opponents, and think really in depth about their plays.

      In those 40 or so begining hands I think I saw his overall tendencies pretty much. And acted according to it, which didn't result in an ABC play.

      -Am I overvaluing those notes/reads and imagining things and after all just got lucky?

      P.S; I am not new to poker, I am way past ABC (or maybe I am imagining it afterall and I suck hard ;( )
    • Dublimax
      Joined: 22.11.2008 Posts: 2,233
      Hi Gregor!

      I have to say that I pretty much agree with what kymupa said regarding the hand. btw next time don't put the results (even in spoiler as everyone is curious :) ) as it doesn't add anything and only leads to biased analysis.

      I think your hand and reads is interesting, that's why I felt like posting.

      Couple of points that I think are important regarding reads:

      When you see someone doing something you take a note and act accordingly. But then remember that because someone did something once doesn't mean that he will only play this way (especially at micros where ppl are a bit more random). What I am saying is that you shouldn't over rate your single reads.

      For example if someone stacked off with total air once you shouldn't stack off with bottom pair the next time but instead open up a bit you stacking off range (to TP no kicker or whatever) until you get to see that he really is a maniac in which case you can open up again your stacking off range.

      So here you are putting a lot of money into the pot with a super marginal hand and I think you shouldn't with the single read you have. Think about your overall range on that flop. You can take your line with so much stronger hands than bottom pair.

      btw why did you bet that flop if you know he slowplays his monsters?

      hope that helps
    • mbml
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,779
      You bet/call because you felt he was raising light on the Flop. But if he raises light on the flop, you shouldn't bet the Flop. Checking is better.

      I don't really know about River call. You should note that some straight draws might have gotten there on the Turn. He could have checked turn for potcontrol with TX and then bet the River. so go with your read and call if u think he has a ton of air, and if not fold cos the Ten on the turn is good for him.
    • TetraQuark
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,521
      Good, a fundamental mistake was on flop, thanks for pointing it out Galvin.

      I do agree with dublimax and what he is trying to say, and that is that a lot of times their actions will be more or less random and change from hand to hand. And yes, weak holding as in my case is just too weak unf.

      On the last note I would just like to say I am thrilled with "new way" of hand evals and I will deffo post more interesting hands in the future because of that. Keep up the good work!