[NL20-NL50] Nl25: QJs

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Poker Stars $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 2010806
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      Hero (SB): $25.35
      BB: $12.71
      UTG: $15.12
      CO: $28.47
      BTN: $25.00

      Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with Q :heart: J :heart:
      UTG raises to $0.50, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.40, BB calls $0.25

      Flop: ($2.00) J :club: 5 :club: 2 :heart: (4 players)
      Hero bets $1.47, BB folds, UTG folds, CO calls $1.47

      Turn: ($4.94) A :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $3.35, CO calls $3.35

      River: ($11.64) T :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, CO bets $3.70, Hero calls $3.70

      Opponents = unknown.

      Turn = better to bet with our huge equity or can we check/call inducing bluffs from FDs and sometimes other floats? I think betting > check/calling

      River: are we ever good there? I think I should have folded.
  • 6 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Flop: You should recognize that your hand is a bluff catcher. In a 4way pot, I don't think anyone calls with worse than JX and flush draws or 34s. Your kicker is bad and even if I had AJ i would check.

      Turn: Definitely a check now. You are not getting value from worse besides flush draws so check to induce. I don't think you are a favourite vs his calling range.

      River: Well you beat busted FDs which is the majority of his range. You lose to nut flush draws and JTs now. I don't know what to make of his sizing, obviously when he bets so small you are going to be calling more often and he would be bluffing really rarely. If he's a fish I would call more often cos they tend to bluff with small sizing more often.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Since I'm also donking with sets here, does it not make sense to donk a hand like this as well?

      We still get called by FDs and at least sometimes by worse pairs. Though yes, there is not a ton of value.

      Do you expect to see enough bluffs here anyway to make check/calling good? If you do, how do you balance your check/call line?

      What kind of hands would you suggest me to donk on this flop in order for my set donkbets here not to be too unbalanced?
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      1) Your donk betting range should be very polarized in 4way pots. Absolutely no reason to balance your donking range in multiway action cos you are not achieving anything.

      2) About getting value: What matters is your equity vs his calling range. If it's <50%, you have no value.

      3) I don't mind just c/c once and give up (but u did pick up flush draw so I wouldn't fold turn). Maybe even just c/f Flop if PFR cbets cos to be frank, I don't think he cbets air in 4way pot and QJ loses to KJ/AJ/QQ+/sets and is only slightly ahead of draws.

      4) You might want to reconsider donking the Flop with sets. I don't see any reason not to check/raise with sets.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      Your donk betting range should be very polarized in 4way pots. Absolutely no reason to balance your donking range in multiway action cos you are not achieving anything.


      Should it not be merged on higher limits? If we are polarized are we not rather exploitable by good opponents here after all?

      2) About getting value: What matters is your equity vs his calling range. If it's <50%, you have no value.


      How do we calculate it in a 4way pot where it is much more complicated?

      4) You might want to reconsider donking the Flop with sets. I don't see any reason not to check/raise with sets.


      Once you check/raise are you basically not typing your hand into the chatbox? What else are you check/raising except some non-nut FDs? Well, OK, I guess you can balance it with those weaker FDs, but when you check/raise they usually give up all their medium made hands such as midpairs and frequently even overpairs. A check/raise here just looks too strong and forces too many hands out.
      + this flop gets checked down so often that you sometimes not only end up losing 1 street of value but also end up giving free cards in a 4way pot. That doesn't sound cool to me.

      Am I overlooking something?
    • Farmarchist
      Farmarchist
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 14,640
      ?? I think this is an easy flop bet for protection and yes value. UTG and BB are fishes so there is value. There won't come a CB with air anyways 4way.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      1) if u want to merge, u use the upperend of your range. AJ could potentially be used as a merge. QJ is too weak in a 4way 6max pot. Utg and bb may be fish but thinking that they play so many worse jx is hoghly optimistic. I also wouldnt merge at higher limits though.

      2) we dont need to calculste it vs 3 other players. Just construct a calling range for an individual player.

      3) if u think u get folds here all the time (which i dont) , u shuld be cr bluffing here all day.