[NL20-NL50] NL50 JJ 3bet pot vs aggro

    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

      Reproduzir mão

      $0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)

      Known players:
      CO:
      $10.50
      BU (Hero):
      $51.75
      SB:
      $93.62
      BB:
      $166.28


      Preflop: Hero is BU with J, J.
      CO folds, Hero raises to $1.12, SB raises to $5.00, BB folds, Hero calls $3.88.

      Flop: ($10.5) 3, 5, 6 (2 players)
      SB bets $6.00, Hero calls $6.00.

      Turn: ($22.5) T (2 players)
      SB bets $11.00, Hero raises to $40.75(All-In).

      Final Pot: $74.25.


      Villain 25/22/13
      3bet SB vs steal 11%
      3bet vs open BU 17%
      fold to 4bet 50% (12)
      cbet in 3bet pot 77% (13)
      cbet turn in 3bet pot 4 in 5
      WTSD 39%
      WWSF 51%

      Beware that his hand was on beggining of session and I was playing this guy on several tables, so at the time of this hand I must had a lot less sample (maybe~300 hands)

      At the time I thought that flatting was much better than 4bet/ship.

      Nice hand?

      If I had this sample at the time would you guys prefer 4bet/ship?
  • 8 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      PF: I think in 2012 at NL50 in most sites, JJ is really strong here. Just 4bet this BY DEFAULT in these positions. So many bad flosp for you.

      As played, you could raise flop and induce some spazz from AK or some T9s, or maybe get 99/TT to shove over you.

      On the Turn, shoving is not a good play IMO. Just call and call blank rivers. Q-A rivers will be tough but still, you can call a lot of the time. Let him barrel his AcKh type of hands.
    • TetraQuark
      TetraQuark
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.05.2008 Posts: 1,520
      In this hand,

      NL50 JJ 3bet pot oop

      we want to shove T...

      and in this case we don't?

      -Why and what is the difference?

      Yes we are dead to a part of his range, but he also picks up outs with another part.
      I rly h8 my life if R is A-Q, I just let him see quarter of a deck and if he is good he should be shoving on any of those cards.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      In the other example, there are 2 flush draws, I think we are just way ahead of so many more draws. I expect his barreling range in that hand to be weaker and more semibluff heavy.

      For this hand, we lose to some flushes, and also he just barrels less often as a bluff. Imagine if he had some TP no kicker hand. He would probably want to pot control the Turn.
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      He snap called turn and showed KT with no FD. Do you take anything from it to future hands?
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      It means that he is capable of 3betting loose pre and we should fight back more.

      It means that he overvalues top pair. This is not a snap call in his shoes.

      As for how you played it, I think both shoving and calling turn is OK, perhaps I prefer calling slightly. Shove clubs as a bluff to make him fold QQ-AA.
    • double2
      double2
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 04.11.2008 Posts: 14,642
      Originally posted by imfromsweden007
      It means that he is capable of 3betting loose pre and we should fight back more.

      It means that he overvalues top pair. This is not a snap call in his shoes.

      As for how you played it, I think both shoving and calling turn is OK, perhaps I prefer calling slightly. Shove clubs as a bluff to make him fold QQ-AA.
      You mean shove a FD? Against this player that's obviously a bad ideia :)
    • getdotacom
      getdotacom
      Black
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      Vs 17% 3bet it's ez 4bet/call, but calling is OK as well. U have an option to raise the flop and get it in. If u're beat by stronger overpairs or sets, u will lose ur stack anyways. Also he will never lay down TP and most likely will stack off with all his flushdraws and sometimes with some random stuff.

      On the turn I don't like ur shove. U're turning this into a bluff. I don't know ur play style, but I don't have any shoving range here. I'm calling with all my flushes, maybe very rarely shoving some flush and Ahi flushdraw. U should be shoving super lite to make JJ+ ev shove. When he called u with KT it doesn't tell us that much. It still might be -EV if he folds all his bluffs and calls u only with TP+. He has tons of stronger hands than JJ. U shouldn't bet scared of that many rivers. Any Q,K,A is bad and we probably should fold, but a club actually isn't that bad. When they shove the river, u can easily call it. He will never shove anything worse Khi flush. I started to call in these spots with any pair and I'm good like 90% of the time so far.
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Originally posted by double2


      You mean shove a FD? Against this player that's obviously a bad ideia :)
      No I meant if he checks a club on the river, we should shove to fold out JJ-AA.