TPTK in ugly turnspot semi-deepstacked 3b pot

    • axelphoney
      Joined: 03.10.2009 Posts: 2,397
      $1/$2 No Limit Holdem
      6 Players
      Hand Conversion Powered by

      UTG Player 2 ($247.95) 124bb
      UTG+1 Player 3 ($68) 34bb
      CO Player 4 ($671.75) 336bb
      BTN Player 5 ($206) 103bb
      SB AHinafrica ($283.35) 142bb
      BB Player 1 ($699.05) 350bb

      Pre-Flop: ($3, 6 players) AHinafrica is SB Q A
      2 folds, Player 4 raises to $6, 1 fold, AHinafrica raises to $20, Player 1 calls $18, Player 4 calls $14

      Flop: 3 4 Q ($52, 3 players)
      AHinafrica bets $30, Player 1 calls $30, Player 4 folds

      Turn: 5 ($112, 2 players)
      AHinafrica checks, Player 1 bets $60, AHinafrica calls $60

      River: 9 ($232, 2 players)
      AHinafrica checks, Player 1 bets $240, AHinafrica goes all-in $173.35

      Final Pot: $578.70

      3bet sizing pre should have been bigger...

      BB: tagish player (normal stats from what I can recall, like 22/20 or something)
      CO: fish

      Some considerations:

      What range would you call in BB's shoes here?
      With that range, how loose would you call otf?

      I think this hand is pretty tough since I am not sure about people's calling tendencies 3way otf in this spot, and not preflop either for that matter.

      I bet into 2 players otf, and the reg has the "sandwich spot" so he can't really call that wide, no?

      When I played the hand I gave him a range of some medium pockets TT-JJ, and some worse (say maybe 88-99) with a diamond draw) and then a number of passively played flushdraws (AJs, AKs, ATs, and maaaybe some SC like T9s, JTs and such), KQs, AQ that calls the flop.

      Not sure if he'd call 33,44 here pre so dunno if we can include them in his flop calling range..

      Anyways, of those hands, there should be very few (if any) worse that calls if I bet ott?

      Imo I doubt it, so checking seems like the best option, but what then?

      c/call down or even c/fold?

      Very curious to hear what you guys think about calling ranges preflop and otf and also what our perceived range would be if we bet ott.
  • 3 replies
    • getdotacom
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 607
      He's calling with a lot of stuff there because CO is fish. I'd give him something like AK,AQ,AJs,88+,KQs,QJs,JTs. Not all combos of QQ+,AK, but at least half. After he calls flop, I think he has something like TT+,AQ,KQ,QJ and all FDs. On the turn it's more read dependent - is he going to turn all pairs below Q into a bluff ? Or maybe even KQ... if the answer is no, I think we can easily c/f the turn.

      I like betting the turn and then c/f river. It's kinda super exploitable play, but they usually call 1 more with all pairs with FD, also we can bluff him off from AQ sometimes. Then they usually check back almost everything because they have a pair.
    • lnternet
      Joined: 19.06.2012 Posts: 782
      you figured it all out yourself :)

      check fold turn and no hard feelings about it either.

      Even if he is calling wide preflop because of 300bb stacks with the fish, and even if he calls flop like with gutshots and the like, he still has so few bluff hands on the turn that he would need to turn pairs into a bluff to even consider calling turn with AQ.

      Practically he has AQ/QQ/KK+/nutflush only on the turn.

      You turn+river call are terrible actually :(
    • axelphoney
      Joined: 03.10.2009 Posts: 2,397
      Thanks for the input!

      I obv played it the worst possible way, best case scenario when going into c/call mode ott and otr is that he is turning something into a bluff, but without any good reads I don't think we should give villain credit for that.

      So yeah, c/f seems reasonable, and that was also my own conclusion after looking at the hand in hindsight, but was not fully sure. :)