[NL20-NL50] NL50 SH - QJo on MP

    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      CO: $49 (98 bb)
      BTN: $42.15 (84.3 bb)
      SB: $35.33 (70.7 bb)
      BB: $41.81 (83.6 bb)
      Hero (MP): $53.14 (106.3 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP with Q J
      Hero raises to $1.75, CO folds, BTN calls $1.75, SB calls $1.50, BB calls $1.25

      Flop: ($7) 7 J T (4 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $5.29, BTN calls $5.29, 2 folds

      Turn: ($17.58) 5 (2 players)
      Hero bets $12.46, BTN raises to $35.11 and is all-in, Hero calls $22.65

      River: ($87.80) K (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Results:
      $87.80 pot ($3.00 rake)
      Final Board: 7 J T 5 K
      BTN showed T J and won $84.80 ($42.65 net)
      Hero showed Q J and lost (-$42.15 net)

      Stats: VPIP: 49, PFR: 31, 3B: 25, AF: 2,3, Hands: 51

      This too was a FR in which people left and only fish remained.

      Due to his stats and his stack, I felt committed on turn and did a crying call.
      He was also raising big pretty much everyone many times.
      Thoughts?
  • 5 replies
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      PF: Sizing may be too big. Do you use a tight opening range? If not it may not be a good idea. But a larger 3.5BB open is certainly great on a looser table (which may be the case here given that I see 3 80bb stacks, which is indicative that this is a fishy table)

      Flop: Bet is way too big. Your hand is not really strong. Only JX hand you beat is J9s, and there are some hands which already crush you hard like JTs and 89s. I bet 3.50-4$ and fold to a raise.

      Turn: Time to pot control the Turn. I no longer see any value for you. Sure, you are ahead of draws, but you are crushed by all other made hands. Against that range, you definitely have <50% equity. Is it enough to continue though? I would think so. I think your equity is maybe 35-40%, which is why you cannot value bet turn but you can c/c to bluff catch vs draws.

      River: I would then c/f this river, because KQ and AQ got there. Only thing you beat now is busted heart draws.

      As played, turn is a really easy bet/fold. You are crushed so hard by his turn raising range which is mostly sets, JTs and 89s.
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by mbml
      PF: Sizing may be too big. Do you use a tight opening range? If not it may not be a good idea. But a larger 3.5BB open is certainly great on a looser table (which may be the case here given that I see 3 80bb stacks, which is indicative that this is a fishy table)

      Flop: Bet is way too big. Your hand is not really strong. Only JX hand you beat is J9s, and there are some hands which already crush you hard like JTs and 89s. I bet 3.50-4$ and fold to a raise.

      Turn: Time to pot control the Turn. I no longer see any value for you. Sure, you are ahead of draws, but you are crushed by all other made hands. Against that range, you definitely have <50% equity. Is it enough to continue though? I would think so. I think your equity is maybe 35-40%, which is why you cannot value bet turn but you can c/c to bluff catch vs draws.

      River: I would then c/f this river, because KQ and AQ got there. Only thing you beat now is busted heart draws.

      As played, turn is a really easy bet/fold. You are crushed so hard by his turn raising range which is mostly sets, JTs and 89s.
      PF: Pretty tight I'd say, I still sit around 15/11 with 9 players, loosening for every missing player. And yes very fishy, most of the time there is never less than 2 fish per table. Felt like x3 is too low and x4 is too big (according to the number of fish calling etc), so I stuck with just pot raises, aka x3.5.

      Flop: Agree with you, but what about protection, and balance? I generally decide my bet size based on the board texture, in this way I protect well and I also don't give out what I have in my hand.

      Turn: Yeah I'm not sure why I bet there. I guess his spewing personality and the 6max made me a bit too confident there, my bad, that really doesn't happen usually.
    • mbml
      mbml
      Black
      Joined: 27.11.2008 Posts: 20,694
      Hi AN,

      balance is overrated and people just don't get out of line in multiway pots. The difference between a 50% and a 75% pot size bet is not that obvious especially to a lower skilled player. Unless you bet like 33% pot, Don't expect people to be able to actively exploit you.

      I feel that at lower limits, try to play exploitative, and focus more on hand reading your opponents, then taking optimal lines vs their hands. Your own balance is not so important until they start fighting back.

      Protection is over-rated, especially with medium strength hands. And with a halfpot bet you are already sufficiently protecting your hand (he doesn't get direct pot odds to call to hit a flush).
    • AtrociousNightmare
      AtrociousNightmare
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2010 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by mbml
      Hi AN,

      balance is overrated and people just don't get out of line in multiway pots. The difference between a 50% and a 75% pot size bet is not that obvious especially to a lower skilled player. Unless you bet like 33% pot, Don't expect people to be able to actively exploit you.

      I feel that at lower limits, try to play exploitative, and focus more on hand reading your opponents, then taking optimal lines vs their hands. Your own balance is not so important until they start fighting back.

      Protection is over-rated, especially with medium strength hands. And with a halfpot bet you are already sufficiently protecting your hand (he doesn't get direct pot odds to call to hit a flush).
      I hope you are sure of what you are saying 'cos this will change my game A LOT :f_biggrin: :s_love:
      Do you think balance will start to be important much later in limits? Like NL200+?
    • imfromsweden007
      imfromsweden007
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.10.2008 Posts: 726
      Slightly maybe, but you can easily get away with the most ridicilous exploitable plays, especially postflop. Trust me :s_grin: Just take whatever you think is the most +EV play right there, right then.

      ifs