Trading vs poker

    • DimnjacarGogi
      DimnjacarGogi
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      Joined: 11.09.2012 Posts: 32
      Hi,
      it seems that trading and poker are similar in some ways (from my little google research). BRM, strategies, rakeback, rake exist in trading but in somewhat different name.

      I really don't know anything about this so to be short, my questions are:

      1. Where is bigger value?
      2. Some solid poker player can make solid living, like 50k per year, how is that in trading?
      3. Pros and cons of poker and trading?

      Thanks,
      would appreciate answer from someone who has experience in both.
  • 45 replies
    • LaBonneJider
      LaBonneJider
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      Joined: 15.01.2010 Posts: 2,250
      No it's very different.

      It's very difficult to earn money in the long term with the "short term" trading strategy (ie. day trading and swing trading).

      Don't forgett when you exchange a financial product, 1 buy = 1 sale

      Who are the main stakeholders on the financial markets ?
      Banks and Asset Management Funds.

      And one person cannot have more information about the market than a bank with an armee of professional traders.

      The different advertising about the technical analysis to earn money on the financial markets (in particular on the forex) are a scam.

      (I'm french and I'm working at the moment in market finance in London)
    • zumpar
      zumpar
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      Joined: 05.02.2012 Posts: 1,185
      Originally posted by LaBonneJider
      No it's very different.

      The different advertising about the technical analysis to earn money on the financial markets (in particular on the forex) are a scam.



      i think TA is pretty helpful actually
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
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      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      With all the shxt that's happened with banks, hedge funds and stocks in general in the last few years, I don't understand how anyone could put their money up I'm sticking to gambling where at least your skill counts for somthing in the long term

      Good luck to all of you who try this
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
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      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,922
      Hey guys,

      Have you checked out our new vertical?!

      http://en.tradimo.com/Home/

      News release from yesterday ;)


      Best regards,
      Gary
    • 3prswins
      3prswins
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      Joined: 27.07.2011 Posts: 204
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish

      It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      This once again sounds so similar to Poker
      :f_thumbsup:
    • ExternalUseOnly
      ExternalUseOnly
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      Joined: 30.01.2010 Posts: 3,373
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      Please excuse my retardedness i'm complete trading noob but how do you compete against others when trading? Seriously i have no idea about it so sorry if i made you lol hard :)
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      Please excuse my retardedness i'm complete trading noob but how do you compete against others when trading? Seriously i have no idea about it so sorry if i made you lol hard :)
      No disrespect intended but who do you think manipulates the markets; that you trade on fools? Personally I'd rather sit down at a poker table with the employees at the old Ultimate Bet ; at least there you shouldn't be surprised to find out you got screwed out of your money. The only way most ordinary people make money in the market, is with a long term strategy. But there's Chris Moneymakers too :f_biggrin:
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      Please excuse my retardedness i'm complete trading noob but how do you compete against others when trading? Seriously i have no idea about it so sorry if i made you lol hard :)
      Trading is a zero sum game. It's not something you'd think of as usual competition, but for you to be able to buy a stock, someone must be selling, and vice-versa.

      So say we buy from someone a share of X at $5, expecting it to increase in value. The other person is selling because they feel it is more likely to go down in price. Lets say it rises to $7, we have made or "won" $2, this is $2 that the seller lost through selling the share too low. If the value fell to $3, we would lose $2, and the other party would be $2 better off than had they kept the share.

      That is a vary basic explanation, but shows how we are competing.

      As for making money, it's "easy" to make money on the market, but another thing altogether to outperform the market. The small moeny comes from getting the direction of the market right, the big money comes from getting the timings right. It's easy to get it on a bull (upward) market and see your investment grow, it's much harder to be one of the first in and the most accurate out
    • ExternalUseOnly
      ExternalUseOnly
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      Joined: 30.01.2010 Posts: 3,373
      Originally posted by gp00053
      Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      Please excuse my retardedness i'm complete trading noob but how do you compete against others when trading? Seriously i have no idea about it so sorry if i made you lol hard :)
      No disrespect intended
      Non taken. Like i say i have NO knowledge of trading at all so it might be common sense to some of you but with the launch of tradimo just now this is me losing my virginity :D

      Thanks for the answers both :)
    • i5bet72o
      i5bet72o
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      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,615
      Originally posted by bennisboy
      Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      Please excuse my retardedness i'm complete trading noob but how do you compete against others when trading? Seriously i have no idea about it so sorry if i made you lol hard :)
      Trading is a zero sum game.
      This is wrong. Trading (like poker) is a negative sum game because of transaction fees.
    • fuzzyfish
      fuzzyfish
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      Joined: 12.01.2010 Posts: 862
      To Externaluse: to put it simply - every time you make a profitable deal, someone has to make a unprofitable one. And then there are service fees.

      To 3prswins: yes there are some similarities to poker, only it's going to be so much harder. At poker tables there you can often find people who are drunk, pissed, or plain stupid. In trading, most of the traffic is done by schooled specialists working for banks, plus a handful of self learned, experienced traders. The field is completely different.
    • JHTAN
      JHTAN
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      Joined: 10.07.2010 Posts: 1,331
      Hi,

      Who is the "fish" and "shark" in online trading?

      TY
    • gp00053
      gp00053
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      Joined: 27.12.2010 Posts: 154
      Originally posted by JHTAN
      Hi,

      Who is the "fish" and "shark" in online trading?

      TY
      Who said if you can't spot the fish then it's probably you (Sorry my friend I couldn't resist; my apologies)

      I think the fish are universal; no matter where you go or what you do: they think you can get somthing for nothing, they think everyone is dumb except them, they put in little effort and expect big returns, they are unprepared for whatever they are attempting to do and they never understand to be successful you have to first plan, then stick to the plan and constantly review to make sure the plan is working and up to date.

      I would say the brokerage houses are the sharks.
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      Originally posted by i5bet72o
      Originally posted by bennisboy
      Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      Please excuse my retardedness i'm complete trading noob but how do you compete against others when trading? Seriously i have no idea about it so sorry if i made you lol hard :)
      Trading is a zero sum game.
      This is wrong. Trading (like poker) is a negative sum game because of transaction fees.
      The transaction feels are near enough negligible when compared to the overall capitalization of the market that it is easiest to refer to it as zero sum
    • roopopper
      roopopper
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      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      There is a great thread about this going on at tradimo...its nice to see non poker players views on this too, I must admit im finding it very interesting :)

      http://en.tradimo.com/forum/trading/Online-Trading-VS-Online-Poker_18613/


      Is it ok to post Tradimo links mods ? ?(

      Guess it must be :f_biggrin:
    • ExternalUseOnly
      ExternalUseOnly
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      Joined: 30.01.2010 Posts: 3,373
      As far as i'm aware its fine to post tradimo links, we're family :)
    • i5bet72o
      i5bet72o
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      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,615
      Originally posted by bennisboy
      Originally posted by i5bet72o
      Originally posted by bennisboy
      Originally posted by ExternalUseOnly
      Originally posted by fuzzyfish
      Have to agree with LaBonneJider.

      In trading you are competing against field of people with university education and years of experience. It's possible to make money with trading but only the brightest / hardest working ones can make it.
      Please excuse my retardedness i'm complete trading noob but how do you compete against others when trading? Seriously i have no idea about it so sorry if i made you lol hard :)
      Trading is a zero sum game.
      This is wrong. Trading (like poker) is a negative sum game because of transaction fees.
      The transaction feels are near enough negligible when compared to the overall capitalization of the market that it is easiest to refer to it as zero sum
      Dont the transaction fees have a huge impact on the long term pofitability of a trader that doesnt have a huge bankroll? Arent the transaction fees like $x per trade not matter how large the trade?

      Please correct me if I am wrong because I have no experience trading.
    • bennisboy
      bennisboy
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      Joined: 11.04.2011 Posts: 711
      For the small time trader and retail investor, yes you're completely right. However if you are talking about winners and losers from trading as a whole, then the majority of trades are performed by institutional traders in very large volume. The comms on these trades are usually in basis points (a tenth of a percent) so while they can be very large in pure monetary terms, when compared to the market, it is close enough to zero to simplify it to a zero sum game